Conversation with a narcissist: part two

Posted on October 20, 2014 by luckyotter

I didn’t blog about it, but this weekend my daughter was admitted to the psychiatric ward due to major depression. I was concerned because she hadn’t gotten out of bed or eaten anything in 4 days. Her father who is a psychopath and a narcissist, seemed concerned as well and met me at the hospital where we waited several hours for her to be admitted. He was actually pleasant for a change, and while I didn’t allow his charm to lure me into giving away too much information or convince me he wasn’t really that bad, I thought maybe…just maybe…he might be changing. After all, he did seem to care about his daughter’s well-being (even if it was to ensure he could continue to manipulate her after she gets out).

Boy, was I wrong.

After that meeting, he won’t stop texting me, and last night it was getting so annoying I finally just stopped answering his constant texts (mostly to ask for things of his he needed that I have in my house–as always, it’s all about him). I guess that pissed him off, because first thing this morning, he texted me again, and these texts quickly turned nasty. Here’s the conversation. I’ll let it speak for itself.

Michael: please when you bring the computer and black backpack, please please bring a tube of BIOFREZE…I have serious strain in my left bicep, it’s killing me. It’s in the cabinet in the bathroom.

Michael: today is one of the only days you can go to work knowing that Molly is safe, and you won’t come home to find her dead. Rejoice!

Me: That’s a shitty thing to say esp first thing in the morning

Michael: Re read it

Me: If a joke that’s pretty fucked up

Michael: you are reading it wrong. Or is English a second language for you?

Me: How the fck am I reading it wrong? I also don’t appreciate the little dig there on my intelligence

Michael: you told me every day you worry u would come home and find her dead [this is true]. well you do not have to worry today cause she is safe. I cannot help it that you are an idiot.

Me: U want me to stop talking to you? Then keep it up. I’m not a fucking idiot.

Michael: Done. no need to talk. I need that puter and biofreze and do not give away my clothes [he is homeless] Let me know what day you get around to it

Me: I cannot do it until the weekend. No money for gas to get downtown to meet you

Michael: do it on the way home

Me: Do not order me around. I said it would be on the weekend. I already told you I won’t forget as long as I find these things. I cannot do it today, sorry

Me: Tell u what. I’ll call if I can bring them sooner. Now drop it please, I need to get ready for work.

Michael: Feeling Bipolar today I see talk to me when you become rational again. have a nice date. [not sure if this was a deliberate misspelling or not]

I was tempted to hurl an insult back but decided to just ignore him after that last dig. He has not changed. He will never change. I’m glad, however, that my daughter is in a safe place for now and cannot hurt herself.

I promise this will be the last of these narcissist conversations. I think everyone probably gets the idea, but this is the way he operates.

My problem with Christianity

Posted on October 19, 2014 by luckyotter

I check my WP Reader almost every day, and always find fascinating viewpoints there. Of course, I don’t agree with all of them, but my mind is always opened and that’s a good thing.

I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about the nature of God lately, and living in a Bible Belt state, I think a lot about who Jesus really was and where a belief in the Bible and God fits into my life. I happened across a couple of excellent and well written blogs about atheism here on WordPress, and I recommend both of them to Christians and those of other faiths as well as agnostics and atheists. The two websites I’m referring to are Godless Cranium and The Superstitious Naked Ape.

There’s a lot of negative stereotypes about atheists and how arrogant and intolerant they are toward religion, Christianity in particular, but I think this view is erroneous. I’m not denying there may be a few atheists out there who are arrogant and hostile toward the idea of religion, but from my readings, I don’t get that impression. I also want to clear up the idea that atheists “hate God.” How can you hate something you don’t believe exists? It’s like hating Santa Claus or unicorns.

Let me start out by saying I am not an atheist, nor do I believe I’ll ever become one. I believe in God, and I also pray. I also occasionally like to attend church services, mostly because I enjoy the aesthetics of the service and the music, particularly that of a Catholic high mass (I am not Catholic) or the joyful gospel singing of a black Baptist church. I believe there may be angels but I am not sure (or maybe I just want to believe in them). I believe Jesus provides a great example of how we should treat others. I also believe many other men and women throughout history provide examples that are just as beneficial to humanity.

But my faith, for lack of a better word, pretty much stops there. I won’t go into a long detailed account of why I think most of the Bible is bunk (especially the Old Testament), or why I don’t believe Jesus was actually the Son of God (in the divine sense), because plenty can be said about that on both of the named websites and elsewhere, by people who know a lot more about these things than I do.

I don’t believe after we die, we only have two options–Heaven or Hell. People run the gamut from nearly totally evil to very, very good, and I don’t think anyone is 100% one or the other. None of us is perfect of course, but on the other end of the spectrum, even Hitler had a couple of good points: he loved dogs and children (as long as they were blonde, blue eyed white children). To say we will either spend eternity in a place with streets of gold and lots of harps and winged beings OR in a place of fire and eternal torment by demons just seems silly and overly simplistic–why would a God of mercy and love send an average Joe or Jane, who just doesn’t happen to have accepted Jesus as their personal savior, to a place of eternal torment? It’s black or white (and to my mind, very toxic) thinking, with no shades of gray in between, and I can’t accept that way of thinking.

Here’s a laundry list of my problems with the idea of heaven and hell:

— If all that is required to get into Heaven is to accept Jesus as your savior, then a serial killer like Jeffrey Dahmer (who was “saved” before his execution) or another otherwise horrible person who got “saved” (and there are horrible Christians out there) would be accepted into heaven while a very good person of a faith other than Christianity, such as Gandhi or Buddha, would be burning in hell. It just doesn’t make sense, and any God who would allow such a state of affairs is no God I would want anything to do with. That God would be a sadist, a bigot, and a narcissist: basically the God of the Old Testament.

— While there is evidence of fire and brimstone under the earth (easily explained by geologic science), how is it possible that so many souls could fit into such a small space in the center of the earth? If most humans are hellbound, and even if humans have only populated the planet for 6,000 years (which I think is complete bunk), that’s a hell of a lot of souls crammed together (pun intended).

— Why would any God of mercy give Satan so much power? Is Satan God’s hatchetman, the supernatural equivalent of the good cop/bad cop meme or the company hatchetman or woman who does all the “nice” boss’s firing?

— Lots of people have never heard of Jesus Christ. If they’re all going to hell too, that’s a pretty unjust God.

— Are children who have never been baptized or told about Christianity all going to hell? That’s a cruel and sadistic God.

— What about people like me, who have tried and tried to believe in Jesus the way most Christians want us to, even praying for the gift of faith, but just can’t do it? God gave me a brain to think with, and to question things. Before I can believe Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins and that the only way I can attain salvation is to accept Him, I need some sort of evidence proving this is so. If God didn’t want me to think and question, why would He have given me a brain?

— Most Christians (at least the evangelicals) think animals have no souls and won’t go to heaven. To me, heaven without animals would be hell. When I look into my dog’s or my cats’ eyes, I know there’s a soul there. Nothing can convince me otherwise.

–Any God who would allow the majority of human beings to suffer for all eternity just because their level of faith didn’t satisfy him, is a sadistic, evil, unempathetic narcissist. I can’t and won’t believe in a God like that. I also think threatening people with eternal damnation is a horrible way to get people to convert. If it works, then it’s a tactic based on fear and is very toxic and soul-damaging.

I’m not a Buddhist or any other eastern religion (I have problems with those religions too), but I actually like the idea of reincarnation. It makes more sense to me and takes into account why there’s so much suffering and injustice in the world. A difficult life may be a way of paying off karmic debt and our next life could be much easier if we pay off the debt sufficiently in this life. Or a more advanced soul could have a difficult life, because they’ve attained enough spiritual growth to be able to learn something valuable from their suffering or use it to help others. I don’t know, but it just seems much more like something a loving and merciful God would do than throw his creations into the Good Box or the Bad Box after they die, and that’s it for you for all eternity.

I take issue with any religion that only values what happens to you after you die, and fundamentalist Christianity seems to care much more about the afterlife than enjoying this life.

Christianity, as is all too often the case today, especially in America, has become very much tied up with conservative politics, and is turning off a lot of liberals who may otherwise be attracted to Christianity. I doubt if Jesus was around today, he would worship the free market economy, think helping the poor was “enabling” them, and be intolerant toward LGBT people, atheists, and women.

And that brings me to the evangelical Christian attitude toward women. According to the Bible, it was because of a woman (Eve) that man fell from grace, and because God made man first (with women being created as helpmates), the biblical view is that men have dominion over women and women should submit to their will, even when the man is abusing them. For that matter, the God of the Old Testament acted much like an abusive husband. I’m sorry, but that view is a total turnoff to me, and isn’t doing anything to win more women over to evangelical Christianity.

I know I said I wasn’t going to talk about the Bible here, but there’s something I need to get off my chest. When Christians can’t back up their arguments with reason and evidence (creationism vs. evolution is just one example), they almost always use the “But it’s in the Bible so it must be so” argument. If you try to pin them down as to why the Bible is right, all they can say is “it’s the word of God.” No. It’s the words of men, translated many times and from many different languages. The Bible can and has been interpreted differently by different Christian denominations, and even Christians can’t seem to agree among themselves what the Bible is actually saying in many cases–because it’s full of contradictions (which I won’t get into here because it would take way too long). What makes the Bible so special anyway? It’s a book. Homer’s Odyssey is a book too. Why isn’t Homer’s Odyssey taken as the word of God? For that matter, what makes one religious text right and another one wrong? Christians think Muslims are all going to hell and their Koran is the wrong holy book. Muslims think the same about Christians and the Bible. Mormons think only the Book of Mormon is the correct holy text. What makes one automatically right and the other ones wrong? If any of them were right, wouldn’t God somehow give us some sort of clue as to which text we should all be following?

There’s a lot more things I could say, but then this article would turn into a book, so let me just sum up here with what I personally believe.

I believe God exists, and that he created the universe, but I also very much believe in scientific evidence that the earth is several billion years old and that all life on earth evolved, and was not created in 6 literal days. I think a concept known as “divine intervention” is a possibility–that is, that evolution occurred, but was overseen by God or a higher intelligence and that the evolution of human beings may have been “helped along.” Some evolutionists actually believe this view is a watered down version of creationism, and perhaps it is. I don’t dispute the idea of random evolution, but human intelligence seemed to happen too fast for that to be the case although I could be wrong. Besides, I find the idea of no higher intelligence watching over things a little frightening and to me that would seem to make all our striving and suffering a little pointless. I like to think there is some higher purpose to this life than mere physical reality.

As for the afterlife, I believe some people may go to heaven, but I don’t believe in hell, unless it’s a hell created by our own minds during this life that continues into the afterlife. I actually find the idea of annihilation after death more attractive than one of eternal torment, but I think our souls live on. Perhaps hell exists but only for the truly evil and unrepentant. I think the rest of us–who are too good for hell but not good enough for heaven–probably get reincarnated after a time of contemplating and assimilating the lessons learned in this life. I believe God is merciful and loving, and loves all his children, even those who have no faith he exists, and he would never give an evil entity like Satan (who probably doesn’t exist anyway) dominion over the majority of human souls after they die. As for Jesus, I have a lot of trouble with both the concept of his divinity and the idea of the Trinity. The first seems like a fairy tale and there’s no evidence, and as for the concept of the Trinity, I just can’t wrap my brain around it. Is there one God or three? How can God be three persons in one? Believers take it on faith alone and don’t try to analyze it, but I just can’t do that because of my analytical nature. I need to know the why’s and hows of everything before I embrace it. However, I do think Jesus was an extremely evolved soul who showed us a lot about grace, mercy and love, and I wish more Christians actually tried to follow the example of Jesus Christ in their daily lives instead of only on Sundays.

I have no idea what “religion” my beliefs make me; I suppose it’s bits and pieces of a lot of things that fit in with my worldview. But I’m open to changing my mind about a lot given enough proof.

I like to read blogs and books by atheists, Christians, and everything in between, in an attempt to understand differing viewpoints, and it saddens me that so much hatred, violence and death has occurred in the name of religion. Why does it matter if you worship a different God than I do, or even no God at all? We can all be moral and decent people who bring good to the world and to others, no matter whether we’re Christians, Jews, Buddhists, agnostics, pagans, or atheists. I wish people with different belief systems would act the way this atheist and Christian pastor do in this video, in a civil and respectful manner. These two men have completely opposite beliefs, and yet have become good friends, and I find that very heartwarming and the video is extremely interesting.

I can’t embed the video, but here’s the link:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/07/08/video-from-the-megachurch-service/

Nuff said.

The “Dollhouse Effect” of Narcissism

Posted on October 17, 2014 by luckyotter

Very astute article about narcissists with a perfect metaphor.

Kelp hair extensions

Posted on October 17, 2014 by luckyotter

My son was at the beach again today and tweeted this photo. For some reason I’m reminded of “Wilson” in the movie Castaway. Click for a larger view.

Ethan’s hair is the exact same color as the “extensions.”

Conversation with a narcissist

Posted on October 17, 2014 by luckyotter

Last week my daughter was in a car wreck (see “Shit Happens”). She has minor injuries to her back and lumbar region but the car (which was in my name and she wasn’t supposed to drive until she got her license reinstated–she is trying to work off a DUI) was totaled. The other driver in the Hyundai SUV was at fault for failing to yield and he wasn’t licensed either.

She waited 3 days to go to the hospital because her back didn’t start bothering her until Saturday (The wreck was on Thursday). I had to give her the driver’s exchange form (which gives all the information about both vehicles, both drivers, and both insurance companies) to show the hospital. She’s been lying in bed for two days and I think she may be having a major depressive episode, which is understandable. But even before the accident, she has been increasingly unreliable and irresponsible. So before she went to the ER, I stressed the importance of getting back this document so I can inform the other driver’s insurance company so we can possibly get some money. I must have told her ten times to please keep it safe and have the hospital make a copy, so what did she do? She returned saying the hospital wouldn’t give it back to her and would not make a copy. Molly lies about a lot of things, and I didn’t believe her. I think she forgot or she lost it. She was also in another county because she was visiting her latest boyfriend, who I think is a meth-head, and it’s very inconvenient for me to drive the 50 miles to that particular hospital to get this document. I need the document SO SHE CAN GET SOME MONEY BACK, or if the other driver’s insurance company fails to pay (because she was not licensed), she could possibly see an attorney and get a settlement for bodily injury. All week I’ve been able to do nothing about this situation because I was missing the most important document.

Yesterday I called the sheriff’s office and gave the name of the officer who wrote her the citation, but oh no, it’s not as simple as just printing me off another copy of the form. I was told (rudely) that I would have to go to the records department at the courthouse (which means taking a day off from work), try to find parking (which is damn near impossible in downtown Asheville), and then stand in line for God only knows how long. My daughter can’t do it because the car’s in my name and she has no way to get downtown anyway.

So finally my psychopath ex-sperm donor texted me and the following conversation ensued. It started off with him offering to help and acting all concerned and fatherly, but pay close attention to the way his smooth manner still can make me trust him and show too much vulnerability, and then later watch the way he starts twisting things around to shift blame and/or make it all about himself. It’s easy to see the pattern and some of you dealing with narcissists will recognize the pattern. Things didn’t get too out of hand though, I did get the needed document, and I think I handled him well.

As always, real names were changed. Comments are in italics and explanations/clarifications are in [brackets]

Michael (x-spath):
Sorry to bother you but try to get Molly a lawyer for her accident a fractured hip means a good settlement and free money. lawyers could even come tothe house to get the info, just worried that she’s throwing another opportunity away. With the settlement she might be able to get another car and pay for school and pay bills at your place. so you have some interest in this. thanks.

Me: I agree w u 100% i really don’t know wat to do…she is very depressed and needs therapy not just meds but refuses to get it…also she lost drivers xchange form when she went to hospital and w/o that i can’t do anything to help her get money back…i have no time to go to records office to get a dup…she has become so unreliable…also stealing..no goals…going nowhere…pissing everything away….so depressed all the time, maybe major depressive episode…i think she needs to be committed to [name of local mental facility] of have an intervention or something i am very concerned…

Michael: [this next message was sent in 24 consecutive texts–while I was working. I have consolidated them]
that info is in the accident report. how does she keep losing stuff…her phone…then she parties after the crash and looses that info. the police will have the report , u must have time date and location plus the car descriptions [telling me what I already know] Talk about irresponsible, geez. Ask her if it was APD [Asheville Police Dept.] or Sheriff. I bet it was APD. call them and get the information, make her pay u for the trouble after the settlement. this is stuff she should be doind instead of feeling sorry for herself.

So far so good.

Me: I’ll try she won’t do anything I ask tho…my ins. may go up as much as 400% after this.

Michael: also your insurance company will have the info since they are going to raise your rates. If they have no info on the crash, then there was no crash and they can

Me: I knew something like this would happen but she is so sneaky, there was no way i could keep her from driving…she always found the key…car was totalled thank God at least she’s alive…but the way she is acting, is like the walking dead [showing too much vulnerability to a narc as usual]

Michael: …not raise rates on a rumor and no police report.

Fair enough. He’s getting me to trust him…

Me: It’s all very overwhelming tbh. [again, showing too much vulnerability]

Michael: Why wasn’t Meth Head [current boyfriend’s name] driving. He has a license. fucking looser. [starting in with the name calling and blame shifting]

Me: Idk, im at work now ttyl (I don’t know, I’m at work now, talk to you later)

Michael: [watch how he starts shifting blame to me]
but you could have taken over the car at some point. now she can’t go to probation or court, good news is that all her druggie friends will not be asking for rides.

Me: True

Me: Idk how low her bottom has to be before she gets some help she just refuses to listen to anything I say…there’s nothing I can do to make her change…I hope you are aware of that…I’m really scared Ill come home one day and find her dead of an overdose…she’s gotta talk to someone

Michael: [now becoming sarcastic as well as shifting blame and shirking any responsibility]
cannot help you there , remember I am homeless thanks to you [because I kicked him out after he beat up my daughter and refused to contribute to the household in any way] but maybe your new roomie can help. I thought it was all rainbows and unicorns after I was gone.

Me: Let’s not go there, ok?

Michael: I like your positive message that you will find her dead. Keep thinking that way and it will happen.
See if you can get the accident report number from the APD. then call a lawyer

Me: ok will do. TTYL, bye.

He is not through yet.

Michael: I texted her on FB to do the same.

Me: Good.

He now sees that I am done and no longer want to talk; starts love bombing with helpful offers.

Michael: well I am next to the APD…I will try to get it for you.

Me: Ok. case # XX-XXXXXX. …ask for the drivers exchange form. Its free i think.

Michael: what day did it happen

Me: Oct 9 thursday

Michael: awesome…at least you were thinking. [notice the dig there–he always used to point out how stupid and lacking in common sense I was]

I chose to ignore the insult and not take it personally although I am very tempted to call him out on this.

Michael: thanks….I will try to get it today. arrange for pick up tonight or on your way home.

Me: thanks…text me later [I was on the job still]

A few hours later:

Michael: Got it! and he [the other driver] was without a doubt at fault as he “Failed to yield.” Molly hopefully has the hospital papers. His ins. company is Integon ..you and Molly need to come up with a reason she waited to go to the hospital…[starts telling me what to say, and what lies to tell] …like she was very upset and no way to get there. Had a friend in [a neighboring county] drive her to that hospital vs. Mission St. Joes. She began to hurt a day or 2 later, but thought it was just sore from seatbelt. [the truth is she did not start to hurt until a few days after the wreck and also was too depressed to get out of bed] ..u can try a lawyer and give them the info you have….time, date location, car model etc, they might be able to take it from there

Michael [continuing on his diatribe]
never mind badmouthing and finding faults. [current boyfriend’s name] is not good for her. You may want to change the PIN # on your bankcard. She or u need that hospital report and get a lawyer very soon. [goes into self pity mode] I am homeless and I don’t have any power to help you with your problems with her. Get this accident claim started and deal with the other stuff later.

Michael: Keep on her lazy ass. It’s free money, but she don’t want to lift a finger [kind of true, actually]. If you get a settlement then go from there…maybe hold the money till she does something positive [ok, I admit that’s fairly reasonable]

Michael: She watches that show. [what show?] C. (ex-boyfriend’s name) was better for her as he wasn’t a fucking meth head like (current bf). just look at his fucking teeth.

Michael: Sucks for you.

Michael: Maybe after you get the insurance process started we could all meet and have coffee. discuss what the hell she is going to do going forward. Even if she goes to rehab, she comes back to the same pill popping friends [actually all of this is the truth unfortunately…but he’s trying to upset me and stir the pot as can be seen in the next sentence]

Michael: or she will get prego by some fucking unemployed drug addled looser.

Nice.

And he’s not done yet.

Michael: she went thru that 20K [her trust fund from my father] in 6-8 weeks. I told her to put money in CDs so she would have some down the road. this time you must make her do that and not blow the money. [notice how he makes it my responsibility to control my adult daughter’s poor choices when I have tried over and over again with no success. This just instills more anxiety and guilt]

Michael: (friend’s name) who she spent like 2K on doesn’t even talk to her. she spent 600 on me and says she gave you 6K [not true, it was about 1K to help with bills] Spent 7K on car, 2K on vacation. paid 2500 on fine [she was and still is on probation]. And the rest on clothes and a lot of pills [probably all true].

Michael: she cannot do that again. she must find a trade. or she will get a felony and be unemployable. [I have talked to her until I’m blue in the face about going to school and cleaning up her life but she refuses to do anything I suggest, and he knows I am powerless.] Ethan [her brother] is going to school, doing all this and she is actually smarter than him. [she has a higher IQ but he is making much smarter choices and doing well, proving IQ means jack shit]

Michael: Find a way to get the report from me toay. I am at the salvation army (homeless shelter). Molly can direct you or take Patton to Precision Tire. We met there before. Use your GPS

Me: ok I can’t read all these til later I’m at work…Thanks for getting it though, I will text u later when I’m off work, thanks

Me: I do have the hospital papers.

Michael: You are thinking today! [another dig] so anyway thats good. does it sat “hip fracture” and “broken toe”?

Me: I have to check later. i am not home rite now.

Michael: ok…come meet me with Molly…she will direct you [I am perfectly capable of finding the meeting place myself] we will get coffee and such. she wants you to get lunchables.

Me: I am still at work! And I’m broke so I can’t buy the snacks today, I hardly have any gas. I need to go home and change first so it wont be 4 a few more hours…

Michael: K after 5 please. Get me McDonalds coffee [after I just told him I was broke]

Me: it will def. be after 5.. R U paying? I can’t buy you coffee, sorry

Michael: I will buy my own…not paying for yours. I am homeless remember? [I didn’t ask him to buy me coffee]
Let me know when you are on the way.

A few hours later…

Me: I’m on the way now. Give me half an hour. Please text when you get this so I know you will be there

Me: Ok?

He doesn’t text back until I am nearly there.

Michael: First left at precision tire, N Ann st. last house, large gravel parking lot. pull in there

He knows my GPS requires an actual address not just a street name.

Michael: Take Molly

Me: she was sleeping. Also need address so i can gps it.

Michael: [repeats previous directions]

Michael: wake her up. Now. do not come if she is not coming. [he never told me to bring her earlier]

Michael: she knows exactly where it is. wake her up as this is for her and not u or me…I will not meet u unless Molly gets her ass out of bed

Me: I am already more than halfway to downtown she didn’t want to get up , please just give me the address.

Michael: no.

Me: ???

Michael: if she can not bother to do the steps to get a settlement on her claim then fuck it.
She awake? Get her in the car.

Me: I can’t I don’t have enough gas to go back now and get her.

–end of conversation–

Finally he gives me the damn address. Then he calls, saying he ALREADY GAVE ME THE ADDRESS earlier, which is a lie. He also said he wouldn’t meet me unless I bought him a coffee, even though I told him I was broke. I was about to turn around and go back, and then decided to use my last couple of bucks for the week to buy him his coffee because I really needed those papers.

I finally got the paper I needed, and also an entire texted conversation that is really very boring and went on ALL DAY, but illustrates clearly the way a narcissist operates. Michael used every trick in the narcissist grab bag: put downs, blame shifting, name calling, manipulation, lies, guilt-tripping, self-pity, gaslighting, and more lies. It made me wonder how the hell I lived with him for so long without putting a bullet in my head.

It also was a wake up call to me–how whenever I’m in his presence I act helpless and vulnerable–and those are exactly the qualities a narcissist both despises and needs like they need air and water. I need to watch that trait more around him and other narcissists and not show so much vulnerability.

I’m tuckered out.

So I decided to blog about it. I had no other ideas for today anyway.

The narcissism of blogging

Posted on October 15, 2014 by luckyotter

I saw this and just had to reblog it. It’s hilarious because it’s so true!

We Need a 12-Step Program for the Self Absorbed

Posted on October 15, 2014 by luckyotter

I came across this article in the Reader and was really impressed by it. It’s also a nice counterpoint to my article from a few days ago, Narcissists who use 12-Step Programs to further Their Agenda.
Enjoy!

See, there's this thing called biology...

Desperately. We’ve become a nation-cult of narcissists, so enamored by our own selves it’s a wonder we don’t just spontaneously combust. It’s so bad people are actually taking selfies of our very own selves. People are consumed by our own health issues, our various disorders, our own particular brokenness, our social concerns. Even in our social concerns it’s become all about us, our martyrdom, we’re the only one who cares, look at me, I’m so socially conscious and aware! Filthy rags, indeed.

Even faith frequently becomes something we like to lord over others, evidence of our own vast moral superiority. Not all of course, but our TV’s are constantly selling prosperity, beauty, and power, for three easy payments of 19.95. Become a Christian, you’ll get free stuff! CS Lewis was right when he said that kind of happiness was to be found in a bottle of port, not in Christianity.

So, in the 12…

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Internet psychopaths: the difference between trolls and bullies

Posted on October 14, 2014 by luckyotter

In my last post about Internet trolls and bullies, I failed to make a clear distinction between the two, but there are differences. They do overlap, but one can be a bully without being a troll or even a psychopath (though all trolls are also bullies and probably all psychopaths).

I started to explain the difference in the comments section, but decided the distinction was important enough to write a post.

Internet trolls are more likely to appear singly (or sometimes as a group) and invade a website or forum with incendiary comments, insults against members or the entire community, and use profanity and namecalling to intimidate the regular posters. Their intent is to destroy the forum or website by running the regular members off. All too often it works, as what happened with the political forum I discussed in my earlier post, where at first the occasional troll would be quickly banned by the moderator and the forum would go back to normal. Once the moderator left and no replacement was made, trolls realized they would not be silenced and could stir the pot all they wished without any repercussions. Forum members tried attacking the trolls, but this was exactly what the trolls were looking for. Soon more trolls joined, and as of now the forum is nearly dead and almost all its regular members have left. Sadly, on that site, the trolls have won. Because their primary intent is to upset or run off the members and ultimately destroy the site, trolls are psychopathic in their behavior.

Like real life psychopaths, trolls will occasionally “love bomb” the site or its members, in order to gain trust and avoid getting banned before systematically destroying or damaging the site. Whether or not they act this way off the Internet doesn’t really matter. Most serial killers act perfectly normal when going about their daily business (John Wayne Gacy was an upstanding citizen, a respected businessman and philanthropist, and entertained children in hospitals dressed as a clown), but have a “secret life” that involves killing for pleasure. A troll is like the cyber version of a serial killer–probably perfectly normal acting off the webs, but using the Internet as a means to murder ideas and honest discussion and debate. In both cases, their intentions are destructive and evil. They also have in common a taste for sadism: both trolls and serial killers love witnessing the destruction they create and get pleasure from making others suffer.

Internet bullies are more common than trolls, and are especially common on forums and social media, where they can easily gang up on one or more members they disagree with or perceive as vulnerable or sensitive. Because they operate in groups (or more aptly, swarms), just as on a school playground, there is probably a “ringleader”–a central bully that eggs on or coerces others to join in the bullying behavior. The ringleader is almost certainly psychopathic or narcissistic and derives pleasure not only from making a target suffer but also from the admiration and respect they gain from their sycophants. Lesser bullies who join the fray may not actually be psychopaths or even narcissistic. Some may not even enjoy bullying that much, but do so to appear to “fit in” or look cool. They are likely to be very young and probably lacking self esteem, so joining a team of bullies to gang up against a targeted member makes them feel like they’re part of a powerful group. It’s a kind of gang mentality: not all gang members are psychopathic or sociopathic, but join the gang to feel like they’re part of something important that gives them a sense of power and respect they might not otherwise be able to attain.

Internet bullies, unlike trolls, usually agree with the forum or site’s prevailing opinions. Their targets are usually:
–newbies
–members who appear to be hypersensitive or divulge too much personal information
–members whose opinions are different from the “accepted” opinions on that site.

Bullies, as members of an established online community, are less likely to name-call, use profanity, and make incendiary comments than trolls, but they are more likely to intimidate their targets by using snark, inside jokes, sarcasm, and subtle put downs intended to make the target uneasy without quite knowing why. If the target tries to call them out or ask them to stop, the bullies can easily proclaim innocence or tell the target they are just being paranoid or imagining things. It’s basically online gaslighting and it’s very crazymaking.

One of the most disturbing things bullies sometimes do is stalk their targets online–if one of the bullies has a little technical knowledge or is a mod or admin themselves (or is friends with a mod or admin), it’s easy enough to obtain the IP address of the target, and follow them everywhere they go on the web. They can then copy personal information the target has posted elsewhere and use it against them, either by reposting it on their site or mentioning the information in discussion. Sometimes trolls do this too, but since they’re more likely to be operating alone and not likely to be n contact with an admin who would have the IP address, it’s less likely they would cyberstalk someone unless they have hacking ability.

I hope this has cleared up a few things about the differences between bullies and trolls. They’re not exactly the same but both can create a great deal of havoc and misery for the people who have to deal with them.

Interlude: Orestes pursued by the furries

Posted on October 14, 2014 by luckyotter

I couldn’t stop laughing.

Click on for larger image.

Internet trolls are psychopaths

Posted on October 13, 2014 by luckyotter

There’s a very interesting website I found called SociopathWorld. Little if no distinction is made there between sociopaths (more likely to have APD and be impulsive) and psychopaths (NPD and more likely to plan out their actions). Most of the activity on the board is by and for the character-disordered, and includes blog posts by psychopaths and sociopaths, both prose and poetry. It’s interesting because it allows the rest of us to have a peek inside their heads. The experience of “getting inside their heads” seems very surreal to those of us who don’t think the way they do. It’s like a visit to another planet.

But even more interesting is the comments. One of the posts was by a non-psychopath talking about her psychopathic child. She was out of her mind with worry and grief over his actions.

Bad place to make a post like that. Almost all the responses either ignored her and kept on bantering about inconsequential things that were already being discussed, or if they addressed the issue she raised, were snarky “inside jokes” about the post or unsympathetic one-line replies.

That got me thinking about Internet trolls and bullies. Forums in particular are swarming with them (I’m not sure why trolls seem so attracted to forums over blogs), and that’s why moderators are needed, to weed out the worst posts and ban them from the forum.

I used to be very active on a political forum, but after several years the moderator quit and was never replaced, and when I went back recently, the forum was overrun by trolls and bullies. Most of the regular posters had left, and the few that stuck around were attacked left and right by the trolls. It’s sad what happened to that site, because at one time it was filled with intelligent and thoughtful people. Obviously most of them were run off a long time ago.

Some websites have a lot more bullies and trolls than others, and a lot of it has to do with the way the forum or site is moderated, and sometimes the subject matter has a lot to do with it too.

There are a few ways you can identify a troll or Internet bully, and I think almost all of these people are psychopaths:

— They rarely post anything original; mostly they just reply to or about someone else’s.
— Their posts are almost always very short.
— Their posts are snarky and filled with “jokes” meant to put a certain poster or their ideas down, or sometimes inside jokes when there is a swarm of bullies present who are on the same page against the non-troll.
— Trying to reason with them never works.
— If they are banned, they may come back under a different handle.
— Never PM or email them your concerns–they can use this against you and suddenly you may find your private message to them posted publicly elsewhere or being made fun of. This has happened to me.
— If you report them, be sure the moderator or admin is not on the side of the bullies; if they allow the presence of the trolls and bullies, that’s a red flag.
— Just like in real life, they will often gang up on a poster who appears to be vulnerable or have a differing opinion.
— They will take offense easily if you criticize them and usually fire back an insult at you.
— They are huge fans of humorous or snarky memes, gifs and photos, and will use these as a distraction away from the topic supposedly being discussed.
— They often go off topic and discuss irrelevant (and usually trivial) things among themselves.
— They gossip openly about past posters.
— They may respond to your comments with a “reaction gif” or meme instead of a real response.
— Some trolls come out of nowhere and make incendiary comments designed to upset the community or individual posters. These trolls are often banned or leave of their own accord.

All these tactics are meant to put the honest posters down, drive them away, or belittle them. Beware of any website where you see these tactics being used. Most of these people are psychopathic or narcissistic.

“Don’t feed the trolls” is excellent advice, if you must deal with them. Don’t respond to anything they say, or better yet, block them if you have that option.