Are BPD and complex PTSD the same disorder?

age_3_1961_2
Me at age 3 in the zone. Was the template for my BPD already laid down?

Ruji, a new commenter on this blog (and the maker of the personality disorder buttons I have featured in the sidebar), made an interesting observation–that BPD should be divided into at least two subtypes: Empathy Challenged/Character Disordered (closer to NPD/ASPD) and Highly Sensitive Person with Emotional Dysregulation (closer to the type I have, although at different times in my life or when extremely stressed I have displayed the more character-disordered subtype). I agree with her. Ruji’s idea is remarkably similar to The World Health Organization’s two subtypes of BPD:

1. F60.30 Impulsive type
At least three of the following must be present, one of which must be (2):

–marked tendency to act unexpectedly and without consideration of the consequences;
–marked tendency to engage in quarrelsome behavior and to have conflicts with others, especially when impulsive acts are thwarted or criticized;
–liability to outbursts of anger or violence, with inability to control the resulting behavioral explosions;
–difficulty in maintaining any course of action that offers no immediate reward;
–unstable and capricious (impulsive, whimsical) mood.

2. F60.31 Borderline type
At least three of the symptoms mentioned in F60.30 Impulsive type must be present [see above], with at least two of the following in addition:

–disturbances in and uncertainty about self-image, aims, and internal preferences;
–liability to become involved in intense and unstable relationships, often leading to emotional crisis;
–excessive efforts to avoid abandonment;
–recurrent threats or acts of self-harm;
–chronic feelings of emptiness.
–demonstrates impulsive behavior, e.g., speeding, substance abuse

Psychologist Theodore Millon has gone even further, proposing that BPD should be divided into four subtypes:

1. Discouraged (including avoidant features): Pliant, submissive, loyal, humble; feels vulnerable and in constant jeopardy; feels hopeless, depressed, helpless, and powerless.

2. Petulant (including negativistic features) Negativistic, impatient, restless, as well as stubborn, defiant, sullen, pessimistic, and resentful; easily slighted and quickly disillusioned.

3. Impulsive (including histrionic or antisocial features) Capricious, superficial, flighty, distractible, frenetic, and seductive; fearing loss, becomes agitated, and gloomy and irritable; potentially suicidal.

4. Self-destructive (including depressive or masochistic features) Inward-turning, intropunitively angry; conforming, deferential, and ingratiating behaviors have deteriorated; increasingly high-strung and moody; possible suicide.

Millon’s Types 1 and 4 would correspond to the Highly Sensitive Person/Emotional Dysregulation type mentioned above (and therefore closer to the Avoidant/Dependent PDs); Type 2 sounds very much like NPD; and Type 3 seems closer to ASPD or Histrionic PD.

complex_ptsd
BPD symptoms are almost identical to those of Complex PTSD.

There are so many diverse–almost opposite–symptoms that can appear with this disorder that one person with BPD can be very different from the next. In fact, you can take 10 borderlines and they will all seem very different from each other, with barely any similarities in their behavior at all. One will be shy, fearful and retiring, never making waves, acting almost like an Aspie or an Avoidant; while another may break the law, lie constantly, and act obnoxious and rage whenever things don’t go their way. A borderline could be your raging boss who drinks too much and ends every annual Christmas party with one of his infamous rages, or it could be the sweet and pretty schoolteacher who goes home every night and cuts herself. She could be the come-hither seductress or the nerdy computer programmer. He may have few or no friends or a great many.

This diversity is not the case with the other personality disorders, which have more cohesiveness in the symptoms their sufferers display. So I wonder–is BPD really a personality disorder at all? Does it even exist, or is it really just a group of trauma-caused symptoms the experts in their ivory towers stuck in a single box called “BPD” because they didn’t know how else to classify them?

In fact, all these diverse subtypes have one thing in common–they are all very similar or identical to the symptoms of someone with complex PTSD (C-PTSD). People with C-PTSD are often misdiagnosed as Borderlines because their behaviors can be just as baffling and manipulative, and both disorders also include dissociative, almost psychotic episodes. Extrapolating from that, I wonder if ALL borderlines actually have C-PTSD.

Earlier today I posted an article outlining 20 signs of unresolved trauma, and I was struck by how similar these were to the symptoms of BPD. And there is also this article that Ruji just brought to my attention that also describes how remarkably similar the two disorders are, but that the idea of fear of abandonment (which is recognized as the root cause of BPD) is not recognized as a factor in causing PTSD and that may be part of why they have been kept separate.

The BPD label, like any Cluster B label, is very damaging to its victims because of the “evil and character-disordered” stigma it carries. One psychologist has even included us, along with narcissists, among the “People of the Lie”!

Yes, it’s true some borderlines do act a lot like people with NPD or even Malignant Narcissism or ASPD, but most probably do not, and are really much more similar to people with Avoidant or even Dependent personality disorders, which hurt the sufferer more than anyone else. But if you have a BPD label, people start backing away from you slowly due to the stigma. Therapists are reluctant to treat you because they assume you will be either difficult and hateful in therapy sessions, or will never get better. Insurance companies won’t pay claims where there is a BPD diagnosis, because it’s assumed there is no hope for you. I’ve had this problem when I’ve tried to get therapy. I remember one therapist who I had seen for the intake session, who told me he needed to obtain my psychiatric records before we could proceed. The session had gone smoothly and I felt comfortable with him. A few days later I received a phone call and was told he did not treat “borderline patients” and wished me luck. So that’s the kind of thing we’re up against if we’ve had the BPD label slapped on us.

Also, as an ACON blogger who works with a lot of victims of narcissistic abuse, my BPD label sometimes makes people wary of me and they begin to doubt that my motives here are honest. At first I was reluctant to talk about my “Cluster B disorder” here, because I knew it might be a problem for some ACONs, who think borderlines are no better than narcissists. But I eventually decided that to hide it away like an embarrassing family secret would be misleading so I “came out” about having BPD (I never actually lied about it, but played it down in the beginning and rarely mentioned it). I’m glad I fessed up, but there have been a few people who left this blog after I came out about it or began to doubt my motives. So there’s that stigma and it’s very damaging.

Both C-PTSD and Borderline PD are caused by trauma. Both are complex defensive reactions against future abuse and both involve things like splitting, dissociation, psychotic episodes, self-destructiveness, wild mood swings, and behavior that appears to be narcissistic and manipulative.

The way I see it, the only real difference between C-PTSD and BPD is that the traumatic event or abuse happened at an earlier age for someone with BPD, perhaps during toddlerhood or infancy, while all forms of PTSD can happen at a later age, even adulthood. But the symptoms and defense mechanisms used to avoid further trauma are the same for both.

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About luckyotter

Recovering from BPD and C-PTSD due to narcissistic abuse from childhood. Married to a sociopath for 20 years. Proud INFJ, Enneagram type 4w5. Animal lover, music lover, cat mom, unapologetic geek, fan of the absurd, progressive Catholic, mom to 2, mental illness stigma activist, anti-Trumper. #RESISTANCE
This entry was posted in borderline personality disorder, C-PTSD, childhood trauma, Cluster B personality disorders, similarities of BPD and C-PTSD, trauma and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

54 Responses to Are BPD and complex PTSD the same disorder?

  1. You seem balanced to me. I think its trigger points and PTSD can be misdiagnosed as BPD.

    Liked by 3 people

  2. Ruji says:

    Wow, so much Borderline splitting between different diagnostic schemas!

    I wonder if the fundamental problem with BPD as a diagnosis is that trauma and character disturbance (just using George Simon’s term for lack of another) are independent of one another–and if perhaps “Borderline Personality Disorder” is basically just another narcissistic gaslighting tactic to convince traumatized people that they’re personality-disordered for rebelling against the narcissistic system that caused their BPD symptoms in the first place?

    Liked by 6 people

    • luckyotter says:

      Wow, Ruji, I really like the way you think–always so out of the box. 🙂 I never thought about it that way — that narcissistic “experts” in the psychology field put “borderline” in the Cluster B PD group along with narcissism and ASPD in order to make us seem “evil” rather than the victims of abuse and trauma we really are (that being said, narcs are victims of trauma too). It does seem like some kind of gaslighting! Who knows, you could be onto something.

      Liked by 2 people

  3. Lucky Otter, I have to tell you, I am very much concerned that the overall lack of understanding about the devastating effects of Narcissistic abuse with in the mental health profession (world wide) has led to a the misdiagnosis of many individuals who were actually reeling from the trauma of emotional abuse. In fact, last night I did a little digging to see what the current definition of “trauma” is and I found some things that really worried me. If you look at the American Psychological Association (APA) website regarding trauma, you will find this http://www.apa.org/topics/trauma/index.aspx. Much of the definition of trauma from their perspective revolves around a recognizable “event”. Narcissistic abuse isn’t really recognized by the mental health profession right now and so it really is not widely considered when survivors seek professional help for what are clearly trauma related symptoms. Last month I took a CEU course for my licensure renewal this year. I took a 15 credit hour course about PTSD and C-PTSD. Nowhere in the course did it mention Narcissistic abuse. And it only hinted at the possibility that emotional abuse could result in trauma. So I wrote the company that creates the CEU courses to inquire about this. The first time I wrote, they ignored me. The second time, when I made it a part of the course evaluation, I got a reply. I was shocked when I received a reply giving me “resources” that I could check to learn more about Narcissistic abuse and the sources weren’t even from mental health professionals. So I replied and recommended some resources for them (which included sources like Christine Louis de Canonville- psychotherapist in Ireland). I then directed them to the message thread on my survivor’s forum where literally dozens of survivors commented about their own agonizing journeys to heal from Narcissistic abuse (and the misdiagnoses of therapists they sought guidance from all along the way). My hope is that this will give an indication of the REAL people who are being harmed because of this lack of understanding about what is and is not trauma related.

    And Ruji, I don’t believe we have met yet, but I like the way you think! Lucky Otter mentioned that she has an area of this site with your work and so I am going to go look for that now. I’d love to read more of your writings.

    Big hugs to all of you,
    Michelle

    Liked by 4 people

    • Michelle, I think it’s great that you’re writing to the authorities on this! I’ve only recently discovered the phenomenon of narcissistic abuse—mostly through stuff on the web, like this blog and http://www.OutOfTheFog.net. Feeling like I’m almost out of the fog now, I can see that this is a severely under-discussed phenomenon.

      Just imagine how many sad, anxious, neurotic people could stop hating themselves if only they knew!

      Liked by 4 people

      • luckyotter says:

        Ruji, I think right now it’s still mostly an Internet thing. No one wrote about narcissistic abuse (except for occasional books like “People of the Lie” and it wasn’t even called malignant narcissism back then) until Sam Vaknin (a self proclaimed narcissist himself) wrote his book and started all his websites. For a long time, he was pretty much the only voice on the matter but over time, other people jumped on board and now mental health professionals like George K. Simon even started blogs and support forums about it. Now there’s more books and websites to count. So it’s a fairly new thing. I think it’s only a matter of time before it becomes known off the web too and therapists begin to address the issue more than they have.
        Michelle, thank you for all your hard work and writing to the authorities. It’s people like you who are brave enough to blow the whistle on these idiots in their ivory towers that help bring about change.

        Liked by 4 people

    • luckyotter says:

      Lots to think about. That’s very…interesting…about the way they responded to you. Yes, I think that’s why people who should be diagnosed with PTSD are dx’d with BPD instead–because long term emotional abuse isn’t recognized as a “traumatic event” the way war or a kidnapping is. Because the way I see it, other than that, there is no difference! Also see my reply to Ruji below. Something has to change and soon.

      Liked by 4 people

      • safirefalcon says:

        Yes, that’s a good point…that it isn’t a one time event.

        That has made things difficult for me to sort things out personally, but not because the abuse in childhood was ongoing, but there have been recent events, that were pretty much ongoing that woke the original trauma and its results, up.

        There’s another term that’s also used for childhood trauma and that’s ‘developmental’ trauma.

        It’s a bit strange though that the powers that be don’t regard childhood/developmental trauma as actual PTSD because it’s not a result of one event, when the PTSD of soldiers after fighting a war isn’t caused by ONE single event either. War i an ONGOING hell.

        So…? 😦

        Liked by 4 people

  4. If BPD is so stigmatizing, why not abolish it and replace it with something better? I’ve laid out a plan for that here:
    https://bpdtransformation.wordpress.com/2015/06/26/26-why-bpd-should-be-abolished-and-what-should-replace-it/

    Liked by 4 people

    • luckyotter says:

      I just read your article and I think it’s great. However, I don’t know if a new name like Emotional Dysregulation syndrome (while a better description than “borderline” ) is really necessary. Because there already is one–C-PTSD–but the DSM hasn’t recognized C-PTSD as a disorder.
      But I agree with you that BPD has become extremely stigmatized and people have come to associate it with “evil and crazy people” instead of “victims of longstanding abuse or prolonged trauma,” which is what BPD actually is. I don’t mind the BPD label in itself, but I doubt it can become de-stigmatized and therefore should be scrapped. I’m curious about something–since NPD is also caused by childhood trauma, would you say that label should be scrapped too? I asked this on your site too–I’m curious as to your thoughts about that.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Thanks for your comment. Complex PTSD is a much better name than BPD IMO. C-PTSD is still unnecessarily medical – people have emotional problems and distress, not disorders – but at least it includes the notions “complex” (i.e. a variety of problems coming from different sources) and clearly links the distress to trauma/stress. So it means a lot more than BPD, BPD being the ultimate meaningless nonexplanatory label.
        As for NPD, it’s not nearly as frequently diagnosed or treated as what is called BPD. So in a way it is less important. But yeah definitely I would support it being abolished or renamed! You know that I want the whole DSM to be abolished! NPD is also a stigmatizing name and it doesn’t really explain the pain and desperation that is behind people who often get that label. There was a therapist who called people with NPD “hurt children in adult’s bodies” (Stephen Johnson, Humanizing the Narcissistic Style) and I thought that was a better name.

        Liked by 5 people

        • luckyotter says:

          You know what, NPD could be another manifestation of C-PTSD as well.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Of course, it is, just like ASPD and all the personality disorders are…

            Liked by 2 people

          • LuckyOtter, I think there is so much that needs to be understood about the effects of Trauma related to severe emotional abuse. You have hit on some really, really important questions here. For the past 6 months I have been very concerned about the fact that survivors of Narcissistic abuse frequently get misdiagnosed based on their symptoms. If you think about it, at the heart of Narcissistic abuse is a person who aims to project everything shameful and unbearable about themselves onto other people. If the Narcissist is truly effective at projecting all of their crap out, the person who is being projected onto will be very confused about who they are. I have corresponded with many survivors who at first are convinced THEY are the Narcissist. They are just beside themselves thinking about how selfish and awful they have been to the other person. What tips me off about the fact that I am actually speaking with a survivor is the very fact that the person possesses the ability to look at their own behavior critically, analyze if THEY might be at fault and FELL guilty about the possibility that they are the abusive person. In my opinion, depending on the effectiveness of the projecting (brainwashing) it is very possible that some survivors can be convinced by their abusers that they are the Narcissist.

            In terms what I said previously about BPD versus PTSD and C-PTSD, I want to make it clear that I don’t believe that the diagnosis of PTSD is more appropriate simply because of the stigma of BPD. I believe that the diagnosis of PTSD is a more accurate reflection of the cause of the symptoms than BPD. BPD is really just a name for a bunch of symptoms that look alike. PTSD speaks to the cause. I think that BPD has gotten the “stigma” it has in part because people who had been diagnosed with BPD historically never seemed to be responding well to the “treatment of the day”. Even in grad school, people with BPD were discussed as never getting better or never wanting to get better- which we all know is bullshit. If you think about it, the “treatments of the day” were aimed at controlling the symptoms of BPD (which itself is a name for a bunch of symptoms). Treatment didn’t focus on treating the trauma. And so here were so many people who were hurting and wanting help, yet they weren’t responding to the “help” because the treatment wasn’t properly correlated with the root cause of the symptom. These people were set up to fail They were not going to get better and yet they were seen as resistant to treatment because they weren’t getting better.

            I could go on about this for hours, but I’ll spare everyone.
            Hopefully this makes sense,
            Michelle

            Liked by 2 people

      • I also think you are right that CPTSD would be a good replacement for BPD as well. After thinking about it, the EDSS (Emotional Dysregulation Susceptibility Syndrome) is much the same idea as CPTSD. But, it is a little more descriptive in some ways! 🙂
        But… I still think that Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder sounds too much like an illness, because of the use of the word disorder. I really strongly think people have emotional problems, difficulties relating, difficulties managing feelings… but this is not the same thing as having an illness or disorder, which is kind of a static, internal phenomenon which doesn’t relate to one’s environment/relationships in the same way that emotional problems really do. I hope you can understand this. I am very against this medical language for subjective experience.

        Liked by 3 people

        • luckyotter says:

          I know what you mean. It makes sense.

          Liked by 1 person

        • I agree that the word “disorder” is judgmental and increases stigma.

          Personally, though, I can’t help but love the sound of “disorder” as both a word and a Joy Division song (https://youtu.be/QrzGpVOPcTI).

          I’ve never really bought into the stigma around “disorders,” perhaps because I’ve spent a lot of time in punk and queer communities brimming with disordered, disorderly, and highly interesting individuals. And maybe that’s why I associate positive qualities—such as intelligence, sensitivity, and creativity—with most DSM diagnoses, and instead of getting freaked out by a label I’ve never encountered before, I ask questions to learn more (e.g., asking a schizoaffective friend what colors they saw in my aura).

          It feels as natural to me to say the word “disorder” as it does to say “punk” or “queer,” because I already know that I don’t subscribe to the system that created any of these binaries (see also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer#Reclamation).

          Still, I often worry that people will get offended when I go out wearing my vest covered in personality disorder and mental disorder buttons, or interpret them as an attempt to shame people with “disorders,” when my intention is the opposite. (I wonder if this is a real thing I should be worried about, or if it’s all just in my head.)

          Liked by 4 people

          • luckyotter says:

            I really do love the way you think. I am not really bothered by “disorder’ either. I’m not bothered by “BPD” per se. I’m just bothered by people who automatically stigmatize us and unfortunately there’s no way to de-stigmatize it.
            There are some who believe mental illness doesn’t even exist– R.D. Lange wrote a book called “The Myth of Mental Illness.” Basically, mental “illness” is the only rational way to react to an insane world.

            Liked by 5 people

            • safirefalcon says:

              I’m not a fan of the word disorder either when used in BPD. I’m probably a bit double standard in my thought process though. I prefer the word syndrome, although in reality that really isn’t that much better is it? lol

              I definitely subscribe to the belief (or knowledge) that people with ‘disorders’ are reacting/responding normally to abnormal and unhealthy situations. It’s the mind’s defense.

              Otter, I love it when you drop names of books. Gotta see if this one is at the library.

              Liked by 3 people

            • luckyotter says:

              Syndrome would be better. Take Aspergers–I have heard it called both a disorder and a syndrome, but I think syndrome is a lot less stigmatizing. I’ve also come to associate the word “disorder” with personality disorders, which Aspergers is not.

              Liked by 3 people

            • Fun fact: Did you know that Hans Asperger originally classified the syndrome as a personality disorder called “autistic psychopathy”? It seems closely related to Schizoid Personality Disorder, in that both affective and cognitive empathy levels are low (http://www.asperger-syndrome.me.uk/history.html).

              Although research seems to indicate loose genetic links among people with Asperger’s/other autistic-ish conditions—like single nucleotide polymorphisms in the GABRB3 gene, possibly leading to GABA dysregulation (http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/study-confirms-a-gene-linked-to-asperger-syndrome-and-empathy)—no obvious “Asperger’s gene” has been discovered as far as I know. Basically, all the genetic variations found in people with Asperger’s can also be found in the general population, and even sibling studies on the heritability of autism show inconsistencies in genes and symptoms across the spectrum (http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20150126/autism-genes-study).

              I’ve been wondering (since before you posted this entry, actually) if C-PTSD can masquerade as Asperger’s. In particular, I wonder about the high comorbidity rates of BPD and eating disorders among women with Asperger’s, and I wonder how such a large population of people with Highly Sensitive Person traits could end up diagnosed with low empathy. Perhaps developmental trauma, especially at the hands of a narcissistic caregiver, can cause HSPs to shut down and exhibit Aspie-like behavior.

              Liked by 2 people

            • luckyotter says:

              Thanks for all the info. On the surface, Aspergers can look a lot like schizoid PD. But as an Aspie myself (self diagnosed) I can tell you that it’s a common misconception about Aspies being empathy-challenged. People with Aspergers have a type of learning disability really–they cannot read social cues and hence can act awkward and shy, and seem to not be empathetic, not because they don’t feel it, but because they have so much trouble expressing empathy (or anything else) in socially acceptable ways. In fact, Aspies tend to be highly sensitive and sometimes feel the emotions of others around them TOO keenly and find they need to escape. That’ not lack of empathy, but it is a common misconception.

              I am starting to wonder if I really have Aspergers or if my Avoidant/borderline/PTSD symptoms might appear to others (and to myself) as Aspergers. Avoidant PD in particular is very much like Aspergers and an avoidant, unlike a schizoid, can feel empathy. But they are fearful of social situations and engaging with others, so they can appear very Aspie-like or even appear stuck up and cold, and seem to not have empathy, even though they do.

              Liked by 3 people

            • Oh! I should clarify that I didn’t literally mean to say people with Asperger’s lack empathy; I was referring to the stereotype. I went out and bought my own Autism Spectrum Disorder diagnosis from a neuropsychologist last year (DSM-5 era, so no Asperger’s) after wondering for a long time what’s up with my brain. I’m still unsure if I’m “actually autistic,” or if it’s something else that science has yet to classify.

              Liked by 3 people

            • safirefalcon says:

              I can’t find that book with the same author. I’m finding that title but it’s written by Thomas S. Szasz. Did you maybe get the author mixed up with another book? I wanna make sure I get the right book too.

              Liked by 1 person

            • luckyotter says:

              Oops, Yes! Thomas Szasz is the author of that book. R. D. Lange pretty much believed the same thing though. It was a popular theory during the 1960s–that mental illness was a myth and/or adaptive.

              Liked by 1 person

            • safirefalcon says:

              OK good. Thanks. Do you think it’s still worth a read?

              Liked by 1 person

            • luckyotter says:

              You’re welcome.

              Like

          • Your response is a good one. Unfortunately most people interpret these labels as evidence of something wrong with them, or as implying pessimism about their potential for future wellbeing, rather than as merely connoting something different. And that has go do with how many, not all mental health professionals misuse these terms.

            Liked by 4 people

        • Alaina says:

          Yes! To everything bpdtransformation said!

          Liked by 2 people

  5. Just out of curiosity? Did I talk about eating gluten free pasta at Olive Garden on Sunday? Because I really don’t recall talking about it.

    Speaking of disorders and stalkers…a guy I knew from my teens inboxed me on Facebook… and started talking about the olive garden dinner I ordered on Sunday.

    Very…very strange…and very creepy…

    I don’t know what disorder that falls under?? And for the life of me…I can not understand how someone who I haven’t seen for over 30 years has insight on what I ordered at Olive Garden on Sunday???

    Liked by 1 person

    • luckyotter says:

      Jesus…that’s weird. No, I don’t think you talked to me about eating gluten free pasta at the Olive Garden…I can’t explain how this guy would know about that. Maybe it’s some bizarre coincidence…but that’s just too weird. Stay safe!

      Liked by 1 person

      • Yes…very weird. My boyfriend took me there on Sunday, and this guy inboxed me talking about me ordering gluten free pasta. My boyfriend thought it was creepy. I did not see this guy seated in the restaurant. The only thing I can think of…is that maybe my boyfriend talked to someone about taking me out…and that person knows him and told him??

        Its very weird….and the inbox message is 2 long…long messages about it…

        I’ll copy one and send it to you…

        Liked by 1 person

  6. Alaina says:

    Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is a psychological injury, not a mental illness. Complex PTSD, also known as Developmental PTSD, is caused by multiple psychological injuries, particularly injuries that occur during one’s childhood/developmental years.

    Having a PTSD reaction to an overwhelming trauma is normal, just as it is normal to bleed if you are stabbed. Having a Complex PTSD reaction to multiple psychological injuries is also normal, just as it would be normal to have many severe bleeding injuries if you have been stabbed many times.

    Giving a denigrating, stigmatizing label to a person who has been stabbed multiple times since early childhood and is suffering unbearable pain and life threatening injuries as a result is hateful, ignorant, and abusive.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Alaina says:

      Just to be clear, I am NOT calling you, Lucky Otter, or any of your wonderful commenters “hateful, ignorant, and abusive.” I am talking about the DSM gurus/narc shrinks who came up with their ignorant Borderline diagnosis for trauma and abuse victims.

      Treat PTSD with CARE: Compassion, Acceptance, Respect, and Encouragement. You don’t get that with a diagnosis of BPD.

      Liked by 2 people

    • frozeroze says:

      Thank you for this post. I realized I needed to know the difference between narcissistic injury/rage and C-PTSD. I guess there is a difference, but it has to do with whether you are demanding that the world treat you as a superior, or you are upset at not being treated like a human being.

      Liked by 2 people

  7. Louise says:

    I was diagnosed with BPD 7 years a go and It still bugs me how in the 21st century people with these conditions who generally are suffering and need help are treated so ignorantly. I have been through hell and back with mental health services, I’ve have been called this that and the other and not taken seriously, it seems all they can offer or recommend is stay on medication and send me on my way. I was under the PD community service for 8 months having recently been discharged, all the therapy received was 6 weeks in a DBT skills group but I had to miss two weeks because 3-4 weeks prior they put me on a mood stabilizer and it made me feel unwell because of the side effects, please tell me how can one expect to recover in 6 weeks? Not only that but we only got to see our care coordinator once a month and all the support we had outside of those times was what was called ‘open clinic’ this involves being allowed to ring up between 2-3 or email them between those times and talk about anything that’s troubling you yet what made it so ridiculous was that even though its good to have somebody to talk to, you never got the same person and strangely they mentioned ‘we’re always here for you’ like as if Samaritans couldn’t do better honestly! Unfortunately this seems to be a just a small issue for the mental heath system in the UK where funding cuts, lack of staff and the availability of services for other areas such as child & adolescent, early psychosis prevention, and access to services for older people is higher on the priority list than those suffering from trauma, developmental and personality disorders…I wish that things could change for the better but it seems unless there is more awareness, access to reliable, UPDATED and reliable information on PDs then it looks like the attitudes towards, lack of understanding and exclusion will continue. Have they ever wondered maybe why so many of us have difficulties getting along with mental heath professionals and people in general? is because of the stigma, how they misinterpret our behaviour/feelings, how they judge or blame no wonder we feel so uncomfortable, angry, scared, unable to trust and they have the audacity to say that we are trouble makers, manipulators, attention seeking this is FAR from the truth!
    Since being discharged I have been waiting for nearly 3 months for the long term support outside the service that was suppose to be put in place and I’m still waiting….no phone call, no letter! its is absolutely crazy. I really do feel for those people out there suffering and I’m hoping that perhaps they’ve been better off with the help they have received or are receiving. As for me I’ve now consulted with a private counsellor and I’m too scared to go back to my GP to access treatment on the NHS since it seems there is nothing they can do for me.
    Still I’m hoping to create a blog and spread awareness of this illness and help others as much as I can I think that if I can at least help one person it will definitely help me!

    Liked by 1 person

    • luckyotter says:

      Louise, what a terrible story. It’s so hard to have this disorder and get appropriate treatment or be treated like a human being. So it’s bad in the UK too–try getting services for Cluster B disorders in the US if you can’t afford health insurance! 😡 Even people with health insurance won’t get covered most of the time because Cluster B disorders, including BPD, are considered incurable. There’s so much ignorance. It makes me so mad I feel like breaking something. But I’ll spare you my ordeal. I do think I’ll repost this article on my other blog for people with BPD/NPD — http://healingnpd.com/
      You should definitely create a blog. 🙂
      The more people fight the terrible stigma and misunderstandings about BPD, the better.

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  8. Pingback: Are BPD and complex PTSD the same disorder? | Down the Rabbit Hole

  9. Louise says:

    There is a part me that believes that BPD maybe a form of sensory processing disorder, at least there could be an explanation that may explain its biological roots, there is a lot of similarity if you look at the two conditions as well as a wealth of information about but a lack of recognition, I find it strange however that SPD it is neither listed as a mental disorder in the DSM or in any other medical manuel despite the fact that it is real and exists! It is however recognised as a developmental disorder of infancy & childhood….ironically PDs are also thought to have it’s contributory causes in childhood and early experiences and thus you could assume that perhaps personality disorders are developmental just as with ADHD or Aspergers the difference is that they develop later on in life and you usually don’t get diagnosed before 18 due to the theory that the personality is still developing.
    I could go on about this topic for ages but I definitely think there is some correlation between people who were born highly sensitive and sensory overstimulation of the emotions/higher awareness type and that environmental plus trauma and difficult experiences good and bad are contributory causes that triggers the disorder and exacerbates creating an eventual sensory overload of the mind and thus the behaviours that we do are just really ways although unhealthy ways of coping and dealing with the pain and inner turmoil we feel not because we are doing it deliberately as some others think! Sorry if I’m not making much sense or it sounds like I’m challenging the C-PTSD theory I’m not, indeed there is a really close connection with PDs which deserve more research and believe that both are not well understood enough. .
    http://www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_processing_disorder
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pnp.127/epdf

    Liked by 1 person

    • luckyotter says:

      Louise,
      This is pretty interesting and you make a good case for BPD being a sensory processing disorder, similar to ADHD or Aspergers. Thank you for providing the links.

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