Are narcissists ever abuse victims?

blackwedgeoflove
Black Wedge of Love / rawcandor.com

Here I’m not going to talk about the popular theory that most narcissists were probably neglected or abused as children. In this article, I’m focusing on the question of whether someone who is already a narcissist can become a victim of narcissistic abuse.

Yes, they can–and more often than you might think.

Of course, not all narcissists are abuse victims, and the more malignant they are, the more likely they are to cause suffering rather than suffer themselves. Psychopaths and malignant narcissists wield Svengali-like power over their subjects and are often found in the highest echelons of business, politics, religious organizations, and other positions of great power and influence. They do not allow themselves to be in a position of subservience to someone else, and take great pride in the fact most people fear them. In fact, they would much rather be feared than liked. The smartest ones are cunning enough to be invulnerable to a total loss of narcissistic supply, which would send them crashing into a deep depression (and opens a window to healing, as I’ve discussed in previous posts). They know how to get others to trust them, which is part of their charm and one of the ways they climb to the top and stay there.

But other narcissists (not “benign” narcissists, because they do have a conscience and even some empathy)–those who still have NPD but are not as high on the spectrum as a malignant psychopath, can and do become victims to “stronger” narcissists.

An unholy alliance.
These relationships actually work in their twisted, sick kind of way, with the weaker narcissist falling under the thrall of the stronger, malignant narcissist. Because they are both still narcissists and the weaker one basically identifies with their abuser (known as Stockholm Syndrome, which is also a defense mechanism seen in victimized people with PTSD), they form a symbiotic relationship, with the weaker person willingly taking on a masochistic role and the stronger one the sadistic role. Their sexual relationship may indeed include elements of S&M, but the sadomasochistic relationship isn’t limited to just sex.

The stronger narcissist will treat the weaker one badly and abusively, but because the weaker partner identifies with their abuser, they actually “enjoy” the abuse they get. It validates them and gives them the narcissistic supply they need (and way deep inside, maybe they feel like they deserve punishment).

Unlike normal people, a narcissist prefers negative attention over no attention, and their abuser is seen as their savior–the one person in the world who can give them the attention they so crave. M. Scott Peck, in his book “People of the Lie,” described such a relationship. Harley was a weak man in thrall to his evil, mean wife Sarah, who constantly berated and belittled him and ordered him around, while Harley just whined pitifully about how badly Sarah treated him but seemed to do nothing about it or have any real desire to stop her abuse. He had no intention of leaving her. He told Dr. Peck he “needed” Sarah. Of course he did–Sarah was his sole source of narcissistic supply (because she had made sure he was cut off from anyone else). Dr. Peck speculated that Harley, although complaining incessantly about his wife’s abuse, actually seemed to want it, and he wondered if he might have been a little “evil” himself, which was what might have attracted him to someone like Sarah in the first place.

I see this same situation in my father, who has always been codependent on MN women, and allows these women to make all his decisions for him. He has always been weaker and more codependent than the domineering, controlling women he married.

Needy narcissists.
A friend of mine, a survivor of narcissistic abuse who also has a blog, tells the story of an aunt of hers, living in abject poverty, who was scapegoated and belittled by every other family member, most of them highly malignant narcissists. She was tolerated at family events but outside of that, no one would have anything to do with her. You feel sorry for this impoverished, lonely, maltreated aunt–until you keep reading and find out that she is a malignant narcissist herself–of the “needy” variety.

Businessman begging with cardboard sign

Most people think of narcissists as cagey, cunning, selfish sociopaths who get everything they want by ruthlessly stomping all over others to reach the pinnacles of financial and professional success, even if that involves a life of crime. But there are many narcissists who are not successful, and in fact are dirt poor. These are what I call “needy narcissists”–people who mooch off of others, using others’ goodwill and generosity without ever giving anything back in return. They whine to anyone who will listen about how their sorry circumstances are everyone’s fault but their own. They demand pity and constant attention. They act entitled. They cry and try to elicit your guilt. They might steal from you. They’ll start a smear campaign against you if you don’t give in to their demands. Sometimes they find ways to get government assistance–such as disability–by faking or exaggerating a disorder so they don’t have to take responsibility for themselves.

They are financial and emotional vampires, feeding off others’ altruism until their providers are sucked dry emotionally, spiritually, mentally and sometimes financially. My ex-husband falls into this category. These narcissists are only less dangerous because they lack power and money, but make no mistake: they are just as dangerous on a personal level as materially “successful” narcissists, and they play all the same evil mindgames to get their way. They take pride in how pathetic they are rather than in what a perfect specimen of beauty, intelligence, success, or charm they are. They still think they’re entitled to be treated as if they’re gods.

“Covert” and “inverted” narcissism isn’t narcissism at all.
There is also something I’ve read about called “covert narcissism” or “inverted narcissism,” which actually has been used to describe people with low self esteem, avoidant traits, hypervigilance, and high sensitivity. Which means that according to that definition, I am a narcissist.

I don’t buy it though, because people with these traits are usually very empathic and if anything, their conscience is too well developed for their own good. They not only worry they won’t be liked, they worry that they may have hurt someone or have done something wrong. They struggle with guilt and shame. They may self-sabotage, but they never set out to hurt other people, and when they do they feel terrible. Real narcissists may be hypersensitive (about themselves) and paranoid, but they never worry about hurting others; at best they just don’t care.

Of course an “inverted” or “covert” narcissist is likely to be abused, because they fit all the traits of someone likely to be bullied and victimized. They are us!

The weak narcissist in thrall to an MN is not an “inverted” narcissist–they are true blue narcissists who just lack the cunning, intelligence, charm or Svengali-like traits their abuser possesses. Or they’re just not as evil as the MN. Within the relationship, they are just abuse victims, but outside of it, they treat others as badly as any other narcissist. Just because they’re abuse victims doesn’t mean they’re nice people. (It doesn’t mean they don’t deserve help either). Obviously, the best thing for a narcissist in an abusive relationship to do would be to go No Contact, but due to their craving of (negative) narcissistic supply, they are not likely to ever leave the relationship.

narcissist

Can a malignant narcissist become an abuse victim?
Other than in childhood (before they became narcissists), I would say no. Because two high-spectrum, completely malignant narcissists are likely to hate each other. One MN won’t give up their power to the other and sees another MN as a huge threat.

Think of two predatory animals like wildcats, encountering each other in a forest. Both are alpha males of their own group so neither is a weak animal. Would these two cats become allies? No. They will fix their gaze at each other, never taking their eyes away, and slowly start to circle around each other, sizing up the other animal. At some point, one of the cats will launch a surprise attack, or one will flee before that happens.

knifefight

In a similar manner, two predatory humans in the same room will be very cautious around each other, sizing each other up, but will almost always intensely dislike each other. They may fight, or they may never speak to each other, but they will not become friends. They are of no use to each other whatsoever. A malignant narcissist will always choose a weaker victim he can use and manipulate, and sometimes that victim will be another narcissist who identifies with their abuser but is no match for them.

The “War on Christmas”? Bah humbug.

waronchristmas

Certain Christians who celebrate Christmas (not all Christians do) have lately been bellyaching via blogs, bumper stickers, and various memes that there is a “war on Christmas” going on. Even some conservative Christian politicians have been bloviating about this alleged “war on Christmas.” Where are the tiny violins?

I find it all a bit mystifying because if anything Christmas is more in your face today than it ever was before. The holiday season used to start the day after Thanksgiving; now it starts the day after Halloween, and even Thanksgiving has been insidiously taken over by a day celebrating the spirit of greed called “Black Friday”–which now has edged into “Black Thursday,” meaning many stores are now open on Thanksgiving so people can stock up on cheap TVs and other appliances to give their holiday shopping a head start.

You can’t get away from Christmas. Everywhere you turn, it’s buy this, buy that; give this, give that; host a big holiday bash or else; and you’re either a Scrooge or a sucky parent/lover/friend/employee if you don’t blindly obey these messages that are blasted into our ears 24/7 for an entire month or more.

If you don’t have the funds to give extravagant gifts or host lavish parties and holiday dinners with all the trimmings or the time or desire to decorate a 10 foot Christmas tree and bedeck your entire house with exterior lights, you are made to feel defective–and Scroogelike. And it’s getting worse and more in your face every year.

So Christmas itself is having no problems. I don’t see any war against it going on.

christmascartoon

I think what the “war on Christmas” actually refers to is cards, banners, signs, and greetings that say “Happy Holidays” or “Seasons Greetings” instead of the more Christian-centric “Merry Christmas.” Those who complain about the war on Christmas are objecting to the political correctness of those attempting to be all-inclusive–because after all, America is a melting-pot nation that includes Jews, Muslims, atheists and people of other faiths besides Christianity. “Seasons Greetings” is convenient and covers at least the Jews who celebrate Hanukkah and African Americans who celebrate Kwanzaa (who probably also celebrate Christmas). In fact, I know a lot of Jews who celebrate both Hanukkah AND Christmas. Christmas has become more of an American holiday than a religious one–and a handy excuse for Big Business to rake in big bucks.

“Seasons Greetings” has been on Christmas cards for as long as I can remember (and I’ve been around quite a while), but it didn’t seem to me that anyone minded that until the past 10-20 years or so. Personally, I think it’s petty and stupid to make such a big deal about it. “Seasons Greetings” or “Happy Holiday” doesn’t exclude Christians, but for some reason certain Christians think that such a greeting is a sign of hostility against them or Christmas itself. I think there are far more important things for them to be worrying about besides the printed message on a holiday oops Christmas card that will probably be tossed in the trash the week after New Years’ anyway.

Here’s a news flash: There is no “War on Christmas.” It’s all in your head.

Spu On…

This blogger is going through the same frustrations I did the first time I was nominated for an award. Like her, I was new here and the instructions seemed overwhelming! The important thing is to enjoy the honor and do what you can. This post made me laugh because I remember so well being new and not having a clue how WordPress worked or even how to post a badge!

Very Inspiring Blogger Award

vibloggeraward

I would like to humbly thank How My Ears Hear You and Butchcountry67 for nominating my blog for this lovely award. I am very honored and humbled. And now I can pay it forward by passing this nomination to 15 other very inspiring bloggers! (I wish I could pick more because there are so many other blogs that have inspired me too, but alas, I am limited to 15).

The rules of this award are:

1. Thank the person who nominated you and add a link to their blog.
Display the award on your post.

2. List the award rules so your nominees will know what to do.

3. State 7 things about yourself.

4. Nominate 15 other bloggers for the award.

5. Contact your nominees to let them know you have nominated them. Provide a link to your post.

6. Proudly display the award logo (or buttons) on your blog, whether on your side bar, ABOUT page, or a special page for awards.

7 things about me:

1. I have 3 tattoos.
2. My zodiac sign is Cancer (June 23 so on Gemini cusp).
3. I lost 30 pounds since the beginning of 2014.
4. I have a dog and 4 cats.
5. My favorite horror movie ever is “The Shining.” It’s in my Top 5 movies too.
6. One of my favorite novels is an obscure science fiction novel from the 1940s called “Last and First Men” by Olaf Stapledon.
7. People tell me I can sing. (I don’t believe them).

Now for the fun part! I am nominating these 15 blogs for being so inspiring to me.

1. Insomnia, Nightmares and General Madness
2. Galesmind.com
3. MyPlace2Spu: a single mom’s soap box
4. Butchcountry67: Life and Love on the Canadian Prairies
5. See, there’s this thing called Biology: InsanityBytes
6. HarsH RealiTy
7. Sometimes I Pretend to be Normal
8. Let Me Reach with Kim Saeed: Surviving Narcissistic Abuse
9. Lady With a Truck’s Blog
10. Amusing Nonsense: Writings on Everything and Nothing
11. Nutsrock
12. Dog Dharma Blog
13. Marilyn Munrow
14. Gemini’s Lament–Truantone
15. Just Plain Ol’ Vic

Be sure to checkout the inspiring blogs I nominated above

I think my family knows.

scaredwoman

Oh, dear.

I don’t have definite proof I was “found out,” but I saw that both my parents have LinkedIn profiles, and reading her profile, she is quite knowledgable about social media.

Of the two viewers I had tonight, one chose to be “anonymous.” I bet one of them is a family member, possibly my mother or father, who may have seen one of my articles I shared there tonight. Since I’m using my real name there and my profile contains my blog’s name and IRL, I think I was probably found out, if they didn’t know about it already (which they might have).

Oh well. It wasn’t going to be a secret forever, and maybe it’s all for the best.

ETA: I just changed my name on my profile to Lauren Bennett (I always liked the name Lauren, and Bennett is a family name). It might be too late now, but it could throw them off.

My father at age three with his mom

I love this photo. It’s a picture of my father at age three in 1930. He’s pulling his mom (my deceased grandmother, Earline) in his little red wagon. I love the way she’s all dressed up in the clothing of the period and seems to be enjoying the moment.

billandmom
Click on photo to enlarge.

The white blob in the middle of the photo is from my flash. I don’t have a scanner, so I took this picture on my phone from a framed photo. I actually think it doesn’t take away from the mood of the photo.

The drudgery of blogging

ohmygodineedhelp

As writers, we get excited about getting a new idea out there on our blogs. I know I do!

After I’ve spent an hour or two laboring lovingly over a new article, then editing it about 30 times to make it as readable as possible, then finding and adding the perfect photos and illustrations, and finally adding tags and categories (which, to me, is the most boring part of writing a blog post), I get a huge rush when I finally get to hit “Publish” and see my hard work in its final form, the way the world will see it.

I take pride in my posts (well, most of them), especially when they seem to get popular. A few have. It’s fun getting comments, lots of likes, and watching your stats go up. It’s cool as hell to see how many countries my lowly little blog post has touched.

But blogging has its dull side too, the side that seems more like work than play. If, like me, you have decided you want your blog to grow and get lots more views, and be replicated and reposted many times on other social media for maximum exposure, then that requires linking every post you want to be seen to various social media.

I don’t really like social media, even though I have accounts on Twitter, StumbleUpon, Facebook, and now LinkedIn. But like it or not, it’s necessary to use it if you want your blog to be seen.

I refuse to post anything to Facebook (except for my silliest fluff posts) because my FOO and other people from my past I prefer to avoid have all found me there–and I do NOT want them to read my blog. I should probably just delete that account and start another one under a fake name, but I don’t like Facebook anyway because it’s become like fucking Big Brother so I probably won’t bother doing that.

Instead, I rely on you guys to share my posts (if you want to) using the Facebook button that’s under each post. That makes things easy for me! The buttons are there for you to use!

All my blog posts are automatically linked on Twitter, which doesn’t scare me like Facebook does because the only relative I know of who posts there is my son and I can trust him with my life. He never reads my blog anyway, but a friend of his does.

StumbleUpon is something I stumbled upon while here at WordPress, and it’s a cool way to share posts and it does seem to bring me more viewers. I don’t use that service for anything but sharing my posts. When I look at my stats, SU has brought me more viewers so I have no complaints.

I just joined LinkedIn today and spent the last two hours sharing every blog post I’ve written (with the exception of a few that I don’t think were that good or were just announcements or something) on that site. That’s the part of blogging that’s drudgery. I would much rather be writing a new post than sitting here pressing buttons for two hours, but that’s part of what it takes to get visibility.

I hate it when I see my stats going down. Today they weren’t very good at all, and I thought to myself I should be doing this when my stats are up and write a new post right now with a super-grabby title to get everyone’s attention.

There was one advantage to this boring task: I got to see old articles that I’d forgotten I’d written. I’m up to well over 200 blog posts now so it’s impossible to remember all of them. I think my writing has improved since the beginning.

It’s not like I had any great blog ideas tonight anyway.

I’m on LinkedIn now

linkedin

I never thought about joining LinkedIn because I didn’t feel like I was enough of a “professional” to have a profile there, because I haven’t had a paid position in any professional field since the 1990s. I used to be a book review writer for Publishers Weekly and editor/writer for two medical journals, but that was a long time ago. I wrote book reviews and also did some proofreading/freelance editing for several years after I moved to North Carolina. (I’m not writing a resume here, mmmkay?)

Due to narcissistic abuse at the hands of those closest to me, I lost all my self esteem and all my motivation due to severe PTSD. Being an Aspie too certainly doesn’t help.
I also spent most of the 1990s and early 2000s as a stay at home wife and mother.

I had the confidence today to go ahead and set myself up on LinkedIn and found several people I know there who read this blog. It’s another way to get this blog out there to an even wider audience. Unfortunately I did have to use my real name there, but I can live with that.
The main reason I’m doing this right now though is so I can link my articles to that as well as Twitter and StumbleUpon. (I only rarely connect my articles to Facebook as too many people from my past know me there, including my FOO).

If any of you have a LinkedIn account or want to make one, please follow me there:

View my profile on LinkedIn

You can also follow me on Twitter.

Comment from a narcissist who wants help

smashingmirror

I found this comment under this post today from a commenter called KWWL who says he/she has NPD. I think it speaks for itself.

KWWL says:
December 15, 2014 at 11:33 pm (Edit)
This is really a great article. And gives me hope for myself. See, I am a narcissist. For years, I was in denial that it was a disease, I almost thought it was good trait to have, to brag about. I never realized how much damage this illness has done to me as a person or to those I love or have loved. As the article foretells, I hit rock bottom this year and for months sat around blaming everyone else for everything–the end to a great relationship, the loss of a great job, not continuing my education. Typical narcissistic behavior. But for some reason, I came to a conclusion that in order for my life to get better and stay better, I had to look back on life without hurt, without bias or anger or anything else other than calm emotion. When I did, I saw the problem–the common denominator–me. Even still, I wasn’t sure why I did some of the things I did. So I read, researched analyzed, analyzed some more. I did a lot of soul searching. Being a narcissist (and having a few other mental issues) has led me to behave in ways that have been severely destructive in life. To me and to others. Most narcissists are in denial they even have an illness but like many other narcissists who are no longer in denial that they have an illness, I found that I used my illness as a “license to kill”. As I said earlier, it was almost something I was “proud of” except for narcissists, myself included, we don’t have pride; we have validations that boost the low self esteem and ego of our true self. When I realized some of the damage I have caused, I was no longer “proud” of it, I was ashamed of it. I knew then I had to seek the root of it and in my case, the narcissism is a mask for a low self esteem that I developed in childhood–a torturous hell at the hands of a tyrant for a father. These are issues I know I have to work on as well. I can’t just say, “I’m a strong person and I’m over it and it doesn’t affect me anymore” as clearly it does for one and for two, I’m not a strong person–I’m weak. I need a lot of work on myself and it’s something I have to stick to; I can’t allow myself to ever get to a point where I believe “I’m cured” as there is no cure for this. There is only treatment and bettering. It’s a long road ahead but I’m in it for the long haul. I ask no pity from anyone though. As an adult, it’s my responsibility to seek help.

My reply:

KWWL–thank you so much for having the courage to speak up here. I don’t know how old you are but you sound quite young but yet your writing is very mature and insightful. much like Sam Vaknin’s (who I am sure you know about). Regardless of your age, it’s incredible to have so much insight if you have NPD. I think insight could be a key to overcoming this disorder. You already have suffered narcissistic crisis and it does sound like you are still in that “vulnerable” depressed, anxious state that follows it. I will say prayers for you (I do not know what your spiritual beliefs are) that God finds a way to get rid of your “demons” and show you your true self.

You also seem to have a lot of shame about having this, which is one step away from having a conscience. You COULD just be bluffing here and this could all be BS (after all, you are a narcissist) , but I have a strong feeling you are being absolutely honest here. Please keep posting–it’s always great to read well written, civil posts from people from”the other side.” 😉
To understand something is to know it, and to know it is to not be stupid about it (I made up that quote lol)

I am also taking the liberty to repost this comment in my next post. Sure, this might feed your narcissistic supply so maybe I shouldn’t do that, but I think it’s interesting enough and well written and stands out because it’s coming from the “enemy” so to speak.

Abnormal is Normal

This is an incredibly well written article about the escalation of abuse and how insidious the process of that is, and what people in abusive relationships need to look out for. This actually had me on the edge of my seat.

Amy's avatarPicking Up the Pieces

Forests_wallpapers_552At least for me the above statement holds true.  It’s hard for me to explain in terms that someone who has not been shaken by violence at the hands of an intimate partner can understand.  We all know logically what acts and words are demonstrative of love and those that are not.  Further, we all know what constitutes abuse.  However, your view of normal shifts drastically from pre-abuse to post-abuse.

I am addressing this, because it seems to be one of the things people ask me most to clarify.  They usually misunderstand me when I say this as meaning that the act of being abused itself is normal, but that really is not the case.  I can explain this a million times, but if those listening fail to look at it from my perspective, it will be futile.

When the abuse first begins, it appears to be something harmless and…

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