Oh, for the love of Christ. Fooled by another f*cking covert narcissist?

Posted on August 27, 2018 by luckyotter

Crocodile Tears

This time it’s a damned covert narc. At least I think that’s what I’m dealing with. Do I sound mad and upset? You bet I am. I hope I’m wrong but I know the red flags when I seee them. I’ve had enough experience with them.

Hell, about two years ago (as some of you probably remember) I spent many weeks and maybe even months reading and studying everything I could find about all the symptoms and signs of covert NPD because I was so certain I must be one myself. I probably qualify for an advanced degree in this disorder. (Happily, I finally realized I am not one, but CPTSD, an earlier diagnosis of BPD, and my narcissistic “fleas” had me fooled.)

You may be aware I live with my daughter, who is 25. She’s a good girl, hardworking, sweet, empathetic, intelligent, and beautiful (and I don’t just say that because I’m her mom). Sure, she has her bad, even bitchy, moments, but don’t we all. She’s overcome a lot due to her father’s abuse, my complicity and enabling, and sexual abuse she suffered at school. There was a time back during her teens both her therapists and I were afraid she was developing a personality disorder, probably ASPD (antisocial personality disorder) because she had a diagnosis of ODD (oppositional defiant disorder) as a teen. She could not function in a regular school setting because she was in trouble constantly and suspended several times for things like stealing and fighting.

Finally, she went into residential treatment and was helped immensely (she was very cooperative with the very strict program) and today is a much different young woman. She has a ton of empathy I never knew was there. I am beyond grateful for that, and today I can say we are the best of friends. She is also clean and doesn’t do drugs anymore so I am incredibly grateful for that too.

But there’s a downside too. Over the past several years, she’s been engaging in a dead end lifestyle I can only call serial monogamy. She gets serious about one guy, they seem serious about her (for a time), and they even start talking about marriage, but things never progress any further. There’s always something wrong with the guy: he’s too controlling, becomes abusive, or starts to see other people on the side, or she gets tired of them herself. At least one who seemed too good to be true turned out to be a dangerous psychopath.

All of these relationships end, and then she quickly moves onto the next man (she’s attractive and personable so it’s easy for her to find new lovers). I’ve talked to her about furthering her education, deciding on a career (she works in a series of dead end service jobs none of which last very long), and focusing on just herself, but she’s just like I was at that age: she seems to lack the motivation gene or any idea what she wants to do in life (besides find a man she can marry and will support her). She seems incapable of tolerating being single. That’s how I was at her age and I will always regret never developing myself to my full potential and not being more serious about finishing a higher education and finding something I’m passionate enough to turn into a career. She is certainly intelligent enough, but she’s emotionally damaged. Getting her to go to therapy is futile. She simply won’t do it. But that’s a whole other issue I won’t get into here.

It’s painful watching her take the same non-path I took –a road to an adulthood of constant near poverty, frustration, lack of intellectual and creative fulfillment, relentless financial insecurity, and now, for me — a terrible dread of old age without any real safety net. I may be living on the streets if Medicare and Social Security are abolished, and that is terrifying. I don’t have a life partner to provide emotional support, since I never knew how to pick one who didn’t turn out to be an abuser. I feel like I’m way too old (and still too afraid) to enter the dating scene again (I hate dating with a passion). I’d rather just stay single and see how things play out.

Getting back to my daughter, her latest paramour is a man 14 years her senior (he is almost 40). He gives the impression of a very sweet, kind, and sensitive person. In fact, he appears to be a very emotional person who shed tears easily and is constantly apologizing. That should have been a red flag.

At first I thought, “oh, how sweet, a sensitive man not afraid of his emotions,” but I actually think he uses tears and emotion to manipulate others to get his way or to get attention. Using pity is a red flag of a covert narcissist, especially one of the “fragile” or “vulnerable” type. They’re common (especially in women but can be found among men too). They’re dangerous because they’re so hard to spot. We expect narcs to be mean, arrogant, verbally abusive, and never apologize for anything. But not all of them are like that, even though on th inside, they are all pretty much the same and just as self obsessed and entitled. No matter whether their style is grandiose or self pitying, there’s always a yawning black hole where their heart ought to be.

covertnarcissism

The reason I came to the conclusion he’s probably a covert narcissist and not just a big softie with a huge heart is the way he appears to string both of us along, causing immense anger and frustration.

He has been promising to get her an engagement ring and propose. He was supposed to do it on our vacation last week. We had agreed ahead of time that he would give me half the money for the hotel, plus half of all expenses (meals, etc.). The tab came to over $400. Originally he was supposed to have the cash for me when we got to the hotel and I would pay the whole tab on my credit card. Well, it turned out his employer made a mistake on his check and he didn’t get paid. How convenient.

His employer promised they would rectify this on Friday, the day we returned from our trip. I believed him, sort of. At least I wanted to believe him. But there had been one or two other red flags previous to this, that I didn’t think much of at the time, but I suddenly remembered them and began to wonder if he was trying to find a way to get out of paying me, or if he was getting cold feet about the engagement, since without the money, he couldn’t put the final payment down on my daughter’s ring.

I wanted to have a good time, and forget about all this unpleasant business, and so we did. It seemed worth it, since we all had a great time and he was nothing less than wonderful to both my daughter and me. Not another sign of narcissism or abusiveness, covert or otherwise.

But after we got home, he called his employer and found out they “forgot” again. He was promised they would write up a check from petty cash the next day, which was Saturday. Something felt wrong.

On Saturday he had a sudden “episode” of fainting and an ambulance had to be called. My daughter went with him to the hospital, which said he would be okay. It had something to do with heat stroke from too much sun, plus another chronic medical issue he’s been struggling with. It wasn’t that I wasn’t empathetic or thought he was faking, but the timing of this “emergency” was just really weird. Of course he could not go get his check, so now it would have to wait until Sunday. Even my daughter mentioned to me that she was afraid he might be faking so he could put off getting the money. I have to admit I thought this was a possibility.

I was growing very angry over his failure to pay me back the $400 he had promised me almost a week earlier. We had never agreed that the vacation would be a gift. I also considered that this might be his way of getting “cold feet” since his inability to get the money meant he could not finish paying off her ring and therefore there would be no proposal right now, if ever. What a cowardly way to call off or delay an engagement, if that was what he was actually doing.

Of course, when he got back from the hospital, he was all apologies and tears. He was hugging both of us and saying “sorry” over and over again. I felt a little nauseated by this over the top display of emotion because I felt it wasn’t really sincere and was just a way to keep stringing us both along and buying more time.

So last night, he was all happy and excited and told both of us his company had finally issued a check (it was handwritten). He waved it proudly at both of us. He wanted me to take today off from work to film him proposing to her (this was supposed to have happened at the beach, but oh well). I agreed to do this because it seemed important and I didn’t want to miss it. I had also promised them I’d film the moment. He said he would cash it first thing in the morning and then he would go get her ring and then we’d all go out somewhere special where he would propose.

Well, guess what. This morning when I woke up he was gone. My daughter was in her room mad as hell (not crying, just furious). I asked her what happened, and she said the check was postdated for next week! I asked her if he had failed to look at the date and she said, no, he definitely had seen it but chose not to mention it because he was afraid she’d be mad at him and he “couldn’t bear to hurt her again.” She said she was sick of his lying and game playing so she made him leave until he could get everything fixed and get the money for both her ring and the $400 he owed me. She said if he failed to do that, she was done with him. That’s a good decision on her part. Meanwhile I’ll still be out $400 which he bilked from me to get a free beach vacation, but I guess things could be worse. He promised her he had a way to get the money today. We shall see. I’m skeptical.

Anyway, I’m glad my daughter is beginning to catch on to when she’s being manipulated and abused, because this is abuse, even though this man hasn’t uttered one nasty word, called her any names, or physically abused her.

Abuse comes in many forms. Covert narcissists (and many borderlines) often use tears, guilt tripping, begging, financial abuse, “stringing you along,” and other underhanded, insidious techniques to get what they want. Because they are less obviously abusive and can seem so “nice” and even emotionally fragile and needy, they can instill guilt and pity to get their way. Their marks are empaths who fall for that sort of shit. If they never deliver on their promises, you can be pretty sure you’re dealing with a person who is never going to be honest with you and will make your life an endless carousel of frustration and anger that’s difficult to target on that person because they “never mean it.”

So, at this moment, I’m (maybe foolishly?) waiting for him to come back with the money he owes and make good on the promises he’s so far broken. But I’m not getting my hopes up, that’s for sure.

Grandiose and “vulnerable” narcissists: how do they differ?

Posted on August 19, 2018 by luckyotter

This got buried for awhile, but I think it’s one of my best posts about narcissism, so here it is again.

Lucky Otters Haven

Both the beggar and the king could be narcissists with a different M.O.

An interesting article in Psychology Today explains the difference between grandiose (invulnerable) narcissists, and “vulnerable” narcissists. Either can be somatic or cerebral, and either can also be malignant or non-malignant.

The two kinds of narcissists can seem very different on the surface:

Grandiose narcissists can seem emotionally cold, convinced of their achievements or success, and rarely if ever talk about their fears or their problems. They can be very quick to judge others though. On the surface they seem strong and tough. You won’t see them show emotions other than rage or pride, and if they are ever sad or fearful, you will never see that side of them. Like all narcissists, they are never happy,but they can “act” happy if they need to. And like all narcissists, they are incapable of love but may be able…

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9 ways to tell if the victim blog you read is run by a narcissist.

Posted on May 6, 2018 by luckyotter

Originally posted on January 9, 2017

hiding_mask

The Internet is a great thing for a lot of reasons, but for victims of narcissistic abuse, it’s probably the first time in our lives we ever had a voice, and would be listened to and believed. There are hundreds and probably even thousands of blogs and websites for people who have been victims of narcissistic abuse, either by their families, or at the hands of an abusive spouse, boss, lover, or friend.

The Internet has given us a voice, so now we can not only read and comment on the stories of others who have suffered similar experiences, we can also start our own blogs where we can talk about our own abuse. Before the Internet, who would listen to us, much less believe us? More than likely, we’d be told, “oh, of course your mother/father loves you,” or “Oh, I’m sure she means well and doesn’t know how to express it,” or worse, “it’s all in your head,” or “you are too sensitive” or “you are too paranoid. Or even, “you are crazy to think that.”

Before the Internet, if you actually went No Contact with an abusive person, especially if it was your own family, most people would tell you you’d “regret it” because “your family is all you have.” Religious people might have said to you that disconnecting from a parent or other close family member was a grave sin and broke the commandment that says, “honor thy mother and father.” Well, my answer to that is this: you are not honoring an abusive, narcissistic parent by enabling them or allowing them to continue to abuse and use you. The kindest thing you can do for them is to stop enabling them, by going No Contact. By doing so, you are removing yourself from the equation and making it impossible for them to target you anymore. More than likely they will find a new person to target, or continue to talk trash about you behind your back, but you are making things harder for them. Think of it as “tough love.” You can still love a narcissistic parent but refuse to allow them to victimize you anymore.

There are many great narcissistic abuse and ACON blogs, forums, and discussion groups that have helped many people and for the most part they are a Godsend. Without them, we’d all still be in the dark, thinking WE were the problem, and that if only we could please our abusers, everything would be fine. We’d feel misunderstood and all alone. We would never have met each other or been able to tell our stories.

This blog started as an ACON blog, but because I’ve expanded into other topics and really didn’t have a lot more to say about my own abuse (because I got tired of dwelling in the past and prefer to look toward the future), I can’t really say this is specifically an ACON blog anymore, although I still include articles about narcissistic abuse from time to time and my old posts on it remain popular.

Unfortunately, there are more than a few blogs, forums, websites and Facebook groups meant for survivors of narcissistic abuse that are actually run by narcissists who are not aware they are narcissists and identify only as victims. Un-self-aware narcissists are far more dangerous than those who have become self aware, because they refuse to–or can’t–see their own narcissism. Instead they project it onto others, even where it doesn’t exist.

Please keep in mind, that there is a higher percentage (as much as 70%, according to some sources) of people with Cluster B disorders like NPD or BPD among those who were raised by narcissistic parents. Because there’s not a clear line between people who have been abused and those who are abusers (and in fact both may be present in the same person) it shouldn’t be very surprising that some victims are suffering from disorders a lot worse than just C-PTSD.

This is a problem because a person who is in an abusive relationship and considering going No Contact (or is newly No Contact) may think they’ve found a safe haven with empathetic fellow-sufferers who can be of help to them, but they may well find themselves re-traumatized later on by the group, should they disagree with them in any way or say or do the “wrong” thing — and there isn’t much, if any, forgiveness from groups like these. Once they devalue you, you are dead to them. I was the target of such a group myself, and was so traumatized I almost took my blog down.

I’ve been in the narcissistic abuse community long enough now that I think I’ve got a pretty good handle on how to tell the safe ACON/narc-abuse blogs from the ones that are not so safe and actually could be dangerous. So here is a list I devised of the ways you can tell if a narcissistic abuse blog is dangerous and should be avoided. If any of the blogs or websites you read show these “red flags,” proceed at your own caution. If you must read them, avoid commenting.

1.The site preaches hate and revenge.

If the site, blog or group you are involved in constantly bashes people with Cluster B disorders, calling them demons, monsters, incurable, having no souls, all going to Hell, or encourages its readers to “get back at” them or “out-narc” them, proceed very carefully. While righteous anger is perfectly normal when you have been abused and can give you the motivation and courage to go No Contact, and even anger at narcissists in general is to be expected, if that is ALL the site seems to focus on, that’s a red flag. Websites and blogs like these CAN be helpful when a person is going No Contact or you’re trying to leave an abuser, but once you are safely away from your abuser(s) and all that righteous rage is out of your system (for most people, it WILL burn itself out eventually), you should move onto sites that focus less on how horrible narcissists (or borderlines, or whatever) are, and more on how to heal yourself from C-PTSD and narcissistic abuse. Also, it’s ALWAYS a bad idea to try to “get back at” or “out-narc” a narc. It won’t solve anything, and you may find yourself more of a target than ever. You’re not going to be any match for any malignant narcissist who’s on their game, and they usually are.

2. The owner(s) and followers of the site, group or blog seem stuck in a victim mentality.

Things just never seem to get any better for them. There is no emotional growth to be seen when people are stuck in a victim mentality. If you try to suggest they move on and work on themselves to feel happier or less like victims, they are very likely to attack YOU as being a narcissist who thinks you’re better than them. This is an example of projection. Sure, I totally get that all the positive thinking nazi’s out there can be irritating (and I HATE those toothpaste-smile cheerleaders who discourage you from being able to express your real feelings and tell you to smile when you don’t feel like smiling), but that doesn’t mean there’s something inherently wrong with being more positive or forward-thinking, or doing something to change your outlook on life to a happier one. As victims, we were trained to expect the worst from people and probably have very little trust in others.

But our narcissists aren’t going to just magically appear on bended knee and tell us they’re sorry and un-do all the damage they did to us. So you really only have two choices. You can continue to wallow in misery and victimization until the day you die, or you can try to change things about yourself without expecting your abusers to make things up to you, because they won’t. Changing yourself doesn’t mean you were at fault, but fair or not, it’s the only way to escape from the trap of being a lifelong victim.

3. They are never in therapy or getting treatment.

I’ve noticed how some people in these groups are never in therapy or practicing mindfulness skills, or doing anything that can make their lives easier or better. I think that’s because they are really narcissists or borderlines who think of themselves as perfect and use their victim status as a kind of false self to get sympathy or attention, and woe be to those who ever suggest they need to change anything about themselves, or that perhaps a therapist could help them. Are they afraid if they go to a therapist, they might find out something they don’t want to know? Few malignant narcissists ever think they are the ones with a problem; it’s always everyone else.

4. The group bans, blocks, or insults people who are self aware borderlines or narcissists — and those who challenge the status quo.

It doesn’t matter if they are in treatment or say they want to change. They are automatically just lying or trying to get attention, just because they say they have an NPD or BPD diagnosis (or even just a self-diagnosis). Because of course, people with these disorders donothing but lie and misrepresent themselves. They CAN’T be self-aware or want to heal! But I know otherwise. I spent time on a forum with self aware NPDs and borderlines who were in therapy and actively trying to make changes and practice mindfulness and treat others better. Why on earth would they want to do that, if it weren’t true? What would motivate them to lie about it?

Some groups also ban, block or insult other victims who show any empathy for people who have these disorders or who question the bashing mentality. One of the things I’ve learned on my own healing journey is that narcissistic abuse and narcissism is not a black and white issue. Most people with cluster B disorders were also victims of abuse–and most abuse victims have narcissistic traits or “fleas” to one degree or another.

I’ve been called a narc-sympathizer, but I no longer take that as an insult. Some of the victim sites don’t seem to recognize that narcissism is on a spectrum, and some narcissists are a lot worse than others. C-PTSD is usually comorbid with these disorders too. While yes, it’s true that there are malignant narcissists who “like” their disorder and would rather undergo root canal than ever darken a therapist’s office door, there are others, lower on the spectrum, who dislike the way they behave and want to learn how to be more authentic and develop empathy and real connections with others. Of course, the narc abuse sites probably aren’t the best places for a Cluster B person to land, but I’m appalled at the way some of them get treated.

The same goes for those who show empathy for people with these disorders. If you don’t drink the “all narcs are incurable and evil” Koolaid and dare to question the narc-hating status quo, prepare to be mobbed, banned, smeared, or called a narcissist or worse yourself. The irony here is that your show of empathy probably means you are lower on the narcissism spectrum than they are. Also, just because you hate narcissists doesn’t mean you can’t be one.

5. The site or group has a tight clique of hangers on and there is never any disagreement or healthy debate among them.

All they do is pat each other on the back and agree about how terrible it all was and how evil the narcs all were. They never challenge each other to THINK or to be open to out of the box viewpoints. There also never seem to be any helpful suggestions intended to help each other heal. Years later, they are still bemoaning how badly they got treated even years after going No Contact, but are doing absolutely nothing to improve things for themselves. They are not very welcoming of newcomers, or of anyone who challenges them that they may be the cause of their own problems now that all the narcissists have been booted out of their lives.

6. They seem to see narcissism where it doesn’t exist.

Someone offers a helpful suggestion or minor criticism, and they call that person a troll or a narc. They talk about isolating themselves from everyone, because “everyone is a narc” or “the world is full of narcs.” I understand the lack of trust, but you can’t heal when you isolate yourself from the world and continue to insist it’s an evil, dangerous place full of people who will only abuse you. You have to learn self empathy and from there, you can slowly learn to trust others and realize there really are good people in the world. It’s sad they will probably never reach that point.

7. They are combative and aggressive toward those who disagree with them.

They may even go on a full-on smear campaign: gaslighting, telling vicious lies about you, projecting things onto you, triangulating against you (complete with flying monkeys), sending nasty “anonymous” emails,and even threatening lawsuits (narcissists are notorious for being litigious), all while continuing to insist that they are just harmless “empaths” who actually show little to no empathy, even among themselves. This happened to me, and it’s happened to others, so this is no exaggeration.

8. If the owner of the group is religious, they are dogmatic and intolerant of other religious points of view or those who disagree with their religious beliefs.

Understandably, many victims of narcissistic abuse turn to God or Christianity since the people in their lives have proven so untrustworthy and unloving. This is not only understandable, it’s also desirable. Having faith can keep us healthy and sane, and give us hope when all hope seems lost. But beware of site owners who use their religion in abusive or narcissistic ways — to shame, belittle, or make themselves feel superior to others. Use great caution around anyone who tells you your religion (or lack of religion) is wrong or evil, or that you are going to Hell for your beliefs. This is religious abuse, and narcissists are notorious for it.

9. You just feel uncomfortable or ill at ease.

Listen to your intuition. Even if you haven’t been attacked or targeted, if you just feel ill at ease of uncomfortable on that blog, forum or group, or hesitate to share your honest feelings and opinions there, chances are there’s a good reason you feel that way. Don’t ignore your feelings — you spent too much time already dismissing your feelings as “crazy” or “wrong” due to the abuse you suffered, but your feelings are probably trying to tell you something important and you should listen.

intuition

The thing that makes me so sad is that failing to move on from the righteous anger we all feel at first, can turn a person into a narcissist, even if they weren’t one to begin with. With nowhere left for all that rage to go, a person can become bitter and paranoid. They begin to see narcissism in normal human behavior. This is why moving on from the anger stage is so important (and for most people, it does burn itself out once the danger has passed).

Moving on doesn’t mean you have to tolerate narcissistic abuse or resume contact with toxic people you have gone No Contact with. It doesn’t even necessarily mean you have to forgive your narcissists for what they did to you (and you surely don’t want to forget!) But it does mean that at some point, you should be able to let go of the hatred and even begin to see abusive types as broken people who got that way because they were themselves abused (I don’t believe anyone consciously chooses to be a narcissist, in spite of what some people say). Once you can recognize them as broken people instead of demons from the bowels of hell, you can then begin to look inside yourself and see what you can do to change and make yourself less attractive to narcissists. (Thinking this way also makes them seem a lot less dangerous, which in turn will make you feel like less of a victim). Maybe you are codependent and unconsciously do things to attract that sort of person into your life. That’s not victim-blaming — it’s just being willing to take responsibility for yourself and having enough insight to see the role you might have played. None of us are perfect. It wasn’t until I was able to stop thinking in an “us versus them” way and stop seeing myself as a “poor helpless victim” that I was able to see how my own narcissism and codependency negatively affected my life and my relationships. Without this knowledge, I would never be able to heal.

All that being said, I truly don’t think these group and forum owners and bloggers are aware that their behavior is very Cluster B, that they may be on the N spectrum themselves, or even–God forbid!–have NPD. I also don’t think they are being dishonest about the abuse they suffered. They honestly believe they are only victims with PTSD or C-PTSD. But their thinking about the issue of narcissism and narcissistic abuse is too black and white for them to be able to see their own narcissism, for to do so in their current state, would mean they would have to admit they were one of “those bad people” and the cognitive dissonance arising from that would be far too great for them to handle. So they must continue to split: projecting onto and smearing those who refuse to drink their poison Kool-aid.
*****
Further reading:

22 Signs of Online Destructive Narcissists in Forums and Blogging Communities

Contrived Helplessness

Posted on April 28, 2017 by luckyotter

This post caught my eye and while reading it, I realized I used to do exactly this. I think contrived helplessness isn’t limited to the fragile/covert type of narcissist though. I think it’s also fairly common in people with codependency issues, or who suffer from BPD or C-PTSD.

When I used to pull the “I can’t do anything” card, it was never intentional; I didn’t want to be that way! I really believed I was that helpless. I’d been programmed to believe I was incompetent and couldn’t do anything. I didn’t know how to be any other way, but looking back on myself in those days, I realize now that I did it because I was so starved for attention and sympathy. Getting pity and help from others was the only “power” I thought I had, but if you had asked me back then if I did it for attention, I would have said no and meant it. Later on, I hated that kind of attention because it could be so patronizing and made me feel even more incompetent and helpless.

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Grace for my Heart

It’s Narcissist Friday!

Every once in a while I come up with a term for a narcissistic behavior only to find that the term is already being used for something else. I have wanted to write about a certain type of narcissist who controls others by being needy. I thought that the helplessness these people exhibit is a learned behavior. So I looked up “Learned helplessness.” Yes, it is a psychological term used for those who have tried a certain task repeatedly without success, then have become convinced that they are unable to do the task. A kidnap victim, for example, may try to run away and fail over and over, then give up and become unable to take advantage of real opportunities. Some of the more famous kidnapping cases, like Elizabeth Smart and Jaycee Dugard, may be examples of this inability in victims to help themselves.

Of…

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“Free Ride” (part two) by Anonymous

Posted on September 28, 2016 by luckyotter

Free Ride (part two)
By Anonymous

(continued from Part One)

John also started making hundreds of plans – once he wanted this, next minute something else. Ordered me around like a boss- do this, find this website, look up this information. Next minute all plans were forgotten and he had another idea. In fact, it seemed he did not know what he really wanted or what he was doing.

He was also full of contradictions. On day six of our online chat he had proposed to me and started planning our wedding. However, a few weeks later he decided he did not want to remarry. He said, “in my previous marriages the courtship was always great until signing the certificate. And then things started to go wrong. If you kick me to the curb I want it to be clean and simple”. A few weeks later he decided he needed to “reconsider the certificate, after all I want to spend the rest of my life with you.”

One day I saw him in front of the computer filling in a questionnaire . It turned out to be a dating site where he had an active profile and his status was “not in a relationship.” When I asked him why he was filling it in he replied innocently, ” Oh, they keep sending me this silly form over and over again… I have not had time to complete it yet.” Lies.

After nine days we had an argument and he said he wanted me and the dogs to relocate to New Zealand! “Let’s just take the dogs and walk out, get a plane to Auckland, drop your job, leave this awful place for good. Take one bag with stuff just like me and leave everything behind just as I did. We will settle down in New Zealand, it looks like a great country welcoming newcomers! The weather conditions there are outstanding. You know nothing about New Zealand and neither do I, so it is going to be a new experience for both of us. We can make a new start there.”

WHAT?? I could hardly believe my ears! I said no, I am not going anywhere, you must be totally crazy! He got angry, went online and said he had already booked his flight ticket to Auckland. Then he grabbed his bag with the very few things he owned ( a few items of clothing, a very old towel and a toothbrush – his ONLY worldly possessions) and walked out to stay in a hostel.

A week later I got an email from John saying he was still in the hostel waiting for his flight back to America. He wrote it in a very sad, pitiful manner and I immediately felt he was trying to manipulate me into feeling sorry he was leaving so that I would take him back. I refused, and he flew off to New York to stay with his younger son.

In his email John admitted being responsible for the failure of our relationship, as he was “unable to cope with my passion for dogs and the world of music. Maybe a better man could handle it.”

Later I figured out he had also emailed his ex-wife on the same day, but this version was totally different. His email to her said I didn’t want him here, as my life with the dogs and the world of music were more important to me than a relationship with him.

He knew perfectly well his ex-wife had been posting “all latest news from Europe” on her Facebook timeline for the whole family and mutual friends to read. She posted what John had written in his email to her and now everybody could read between the lines: “Oh, poor John… He wasted so much time and money to travel across the world for the love of his life — and what did the ungrateful European witch do? She didn’t want him there. She treated him like a crap. She kicked him out. What a horrible woman. Poor John!”
I was furious when I read this post!

After John left, I got in touch with his ex-wife to ask her what I had done wrong and to get some feedback. She said for sure nothing at all, it was most definitely him. She told me in their 30 years of marriage John was very self-centered, controlling and manipulative. They moved 31 times to different states in America. Before marrying her, John had already been married twice, and both of those marriages failed.

Her friends said she was the one who had kept John stable for so long as she was well-known for being an extremely patient and tolerant person. She said their second bankruptcy was the last straw and she decided she was better off on her own, so she divorced him. She also told me John had no money and could never manage or save it, so he lived pension to pension.

He did not know how to manage money. If he wanted something he didn’t care how it would get paid, he just went and did it, and usually expected other people to pay. This is how he has gone bankrupt at least five times in his life!

She said John had probably overwhelmed me with his outlandish fantasies trying to spend money that didn’t exist, he did not even have enough money for his full fare back to America so his son had to lend him some . She hadn’t warned me in advance because she thought I might think she was trying to sabotage things or I would not believe her and she didn’t want to interfere. She explained that she too had fallen in love with a charming, warm, loving and caring guy, that it was like falling under a spell and she let it go on for far too long. Once John was comfortable with her and confident he had her in his web, he dropped the warm and caring facade and started his exploitative, entitled behaviors.

On his Facebook profile John boasted about a long list of “achievements”–but he had never finished anything or stuck with anything for long. He dropped out of one school after a year because he was bored, other schools because of their “horrible teachers,” etc. The jobs he had he also quit or got fired from after very short times. He tried to start some business but they always failed due to lack of finances or investors . He never had any real plans or goals and didn’t seem to know what he really wanted.

He always thought he knew everything even if he was factually wrong. You tried to explain the reality to him and he just didn’t get it and would get mad. He liked to think he was an expert on almost everything from child rearing to car repairs or grooming dogs. He took no responsibility for his decisions or actions, and blamed other people for his misfortune, bad luck, and wrong decisions.

Every night before falling asleep John practiced his “Fugue Dreams” in which everything was possible –he achieved everything he wanted and there were no issues, no limitations, restrictions or boundaries, no illnesses or accidents, no money needed. And there was always plenty of sex with me because I was “spectacular” in his Fugue dreams. I think this world of fantasy and reality mixed up in his mind into a bizarre alternate reality and nobody was able to explain him the Fugue dreams were delusions.

Later I heard there had been a lot of drama going on in his life. John only spent a couple of days with his son in New York and flew off to Seattle to live with his best friend. After a few weeks he fell out with this friend after 40 years of friendship (they had a big fight–I guess his friend was reluctant to carry out John’s orders or failed to comply with his many unrealistic and outlandish demands), spent a few days camping out in a forest, then flew off to Florida to pick up a car which had been offered to him as a free giveaway, but turned out to be a huge scam instead ( neither the person nor the car existed).

From there John returned to New York by bus and spent a couple of days in the Salvation Army dormitory. After that he was sharing a room with an old diabetic guy in a building run by a foundation that helps the homeless.

This was the last time I got some news about him, since I have been No Contact for several months now. I do not expect him to contact me again because I think to I am “dead to him” now.

I still wonder what hidden agenda this guy had? To find a roof over his head, a warm bed and an ” ideal love” in it as a special bonus, maybe he wanted a relationship as an island of stability in his totally messy and chaotic life… Or he wanted me as a sex object (of course he denied that when I asked). Or maybe the excitement caused by the relocation and vision of an ” ideal love” served him as a distraction from the misery of his internal world. There’s no way to know.

Although John acted over-confident in some ways, he seemed extremely insecure whenever there was an issue in our relationship. If the misunderstanding was insignificant he usually asked, “Are we on the same page, baby?” “Are we a team?” Or sometimes he’d panic and anxiously ask, “Are we done?” or “Is it over?” The same happened whenever another man was just mentioned. When I told him my guitar coach from the USA had just taught me to play a new tune, he got scared: ” Is your guitarist with you now?” I told him to relax, my coach teaches me via YouTube. One day we were making holiday plans for summer and John said he wanted to bring me to America for two weeks and asked when it was the best time for me. I said the end of August would work, but I would need to be back at home beginning of September. He freaked out: “Are you meeting another guy?”

Every time he was ready to drop our relationship and I had to reassure him there was no other guy in my life and it seemed to take ages to make him feel okay again. Maybe somewhere deep inside he felt he was out of my league and had nothing to offer. After all, he had no home, vehicle, possessions, status, financial security…nothing.

His stepdaughter also told me John loves it when people beg him to come back to them or stay with them, then he feels by accepting their charity he is doing THEM a favour. He loves playing the “poor me” victim card and wants everybody to feel sorry for his misfortune and failures.

I know after breaking up with me John unfriended almost everybody on his Facebook account, deleted everything back to 2009 and only left two photos, his original profile photo and one post. He deleted all information about his place of residence, status, education, job, etc. He created a “secret” account, so I could only see that it existed when I was trying to block him from contacting me via his old profile, but nothing can be found or seen about this new profile. He apparently does not want anyone from the past to see what he is up to now.

“Free Ride” by Anonymous.

Posted on September 28, 2016 by luckyotter

Sometimes I get emails from people relating stories of narcissistic abuse. The other day I received one from a woman living in a large city in Europe, about a covert narcissist who seemed relatively harmless at first, and made all sorts of promises, seemed to be madly in love with her, but soon all kinds of red flags started to appear. She slowly began to realize how predatory he really was, taking over her life and exploiting her goodwill and generosity.

Financial abuse isn’t talked about that much, but it’s a common tactic used by narcissists in abusive relationships, and it’s a primary theme in this post. My ex exploited me in similar ways, and financial abuse was one of them. This story is long, but kept me on the edge of my seat. I asked her if I could share it here because of how well written it was.

Free Ride (Part One)
By Anonymous

John (not his real name) contacted me via Facebook last October.
As an active member of many fan groups dedicated to music I post quite a lot of stuff every day. He added to one of the groups, saw my postings, liked them and immediately sent me a private message. As a 52 year old childless and separated woman I got a bit curious who this person might be. I said to myself, “Well, you never know…”

John sounded very intelligent, funny, witty and smart, so I decided to continue our conversation. He asked me to send him a couple of photos and provided me with a few of his. I saw a quite attractive, handsome, and sporty man of 70, but not looking a day older than 60. He was retired and divorced, living in America, and had adult kids living all over the country.

When I sent him my photos John reacted, “Exactly what I imagined…”
Soon we were chatting on Messenger for three, four, sometimes six hours on a daily basis. I started to become addicted to our chats because they were so incredibly mentally stimulating and creative.

On the fifth day John said he had fallen in love with me. I became his girlfriend Proposed to me on day six. Now I was his “lovely fianceé.” I got very suspicious and cautious. I thought, “How in hell could this guy fall in love with you knowing NOTHING about you??” We could not even meet in person, for he’s in America and I’m in Europe.

John was very smart with words. When he dropped his first L-bomb I said, “Look, I don´t like big words. You know nothing about me and I don´t know much about you.” He replied promptly, “Oh, America is such a big country! We use a lot of big words here.” He always seemed to have the perfect answer to just anything I might doubt or distrust.

In a few days he started showering me with his flattery, affection, attention. “I am here for you 24/7,” he assured me. I thought to myself, ” This guy must be making fun of you”, so I took it lightly and just played the game to see what was going to happen next.

Surprisingly enough, after a short time he made me feel there was a strong connection between us in spite of 8,300 kms of distance; he was always able to sense how I was feeling in that particular moment: sad, excited, upset, happy, depressed. Whenever I was depressed, he immediately phoned to cheer me up. I was impressed. I said to myself, “Wow… if this guy is able to sense how you feel from that huge distance, what might he be able to do if he was here with you?” It was just amazing and … magical!

Soon I was the love of his life. The reason for his life. He loved me more than life itself. He was so crazy in love with me he could not even think straight. He wanted to take care of me, my well-being and my health. He felt simply “over the moon” and blessed with me.

After several days he started being more and more pushy, so I said I loved him back, and when he proposed to me I accepted, actually still taking it all as a joke.

But then, one day I suddenly saw a long post on his Facebook page announcing to all his friends and family he had found “the one ” and “special” woman, was ready to commit to her and relocate to Europe! I could see a lot of comments made by his ex-wife, sons, stepdaughter and friends congratulating him and wishing both of us a lot of good luck. I was so perplexed my mouth almost fell on the floor. Literally. After he had posted his announcement along with a photo of me, his flattery and attention were almost endless, I could hardly come up for air.

I already knew John was divorced and homeless and living in his small car, so I got suspicious he might be just one of those losers who had nothing more to lose, but was trying to gain a lot (two months before we met on Facebook John had moved out from his ex-wife and got rid of practically all his possessions including the majority of his clothing.) He must have sensed what I was thinking because that moment he asked me, “Do you have any doubts about me?” I replied, ” Do you expect me to support you financially ?”. He said no.

I read in one of his earlier posts he did not fancy the idea of paying high amounts for rented rooms or houses, so he decided to live in his car and save up for a motor home. That made sense to me. He was receiving his regular pension, so I was not dealing with a guy with zero income after all.

Our daily chats were still great, but from time to time something strange happened. Every now and then John sounded very childish and immature, as if he was living in a childish fantasy land. Once we were role playing a scenario I was not comfortable with (it involved some graphic sex). I wanted him to stop and said, “Hey, watch out…sorry, a red flag.” He got offended, quit the conversation and went offline. I think any normal person would apologize and promise not to do it again. He did not.

The next day he was not on Messenger, but instead wrote me a long email saying the thing he hated the most was “changing rules in the middle of the playing field”, described how I had “floored him” with my comment the previous night, how he must have misjudged me, wished me good luck, a great life full of joy and happiness in the future and used expressions such as “God bless you “, etc. He told me how he will hold me in his heart, love and cherish me forever. How he hates to have to say goodbye to me, but there is nothing else he could do.

I was reading this message thinking, “WTF? Is he making fun of me, trying to manipulate something, or what? It was just a GAME! We were not negotiating the best strategy for the key military operation in Iraq! Is this guy normal?” I replied explaining I had no idea about his pet peeves (because he never told me) and that I thought his reaction was completely disproportional to the situation. And suddenly I found myself on the defensive end of the conversation apologizing for hurting him! In my reply I also asked if he was sure he was normal and healthy (which I think any average person would find quite offensive, but he did not)
He admitted in his family there had been some mental issues. His mom suffered from schizophrenia, his dad was an alcoholic and his brother had some other kind of mental problem which led to his suicide at the age of 40.

This incident kept me pretty alerted, to tell the truth. All the time I had a feeling there must be something wrong with John, but I just could not put my finger on it.

John never called me his “soulmate.” He did it in a more sophisticated and sneaky way: when we were chatting online, one day he asked, “Baby, can you do one exercise with me?” I said ok.
“Fine, I am going to ask you three questions. You can only answer yes/no. No other options.”
The questions were: “Will you love me unconditionally? Will you be my soulmate? The third question was a sexual one. I thought such questions were ridiculous and weird, especially the last one. But I was amused and said yes to all of them. Now I know that was probably my first big mistake. These questions gave me the general impression of engaging in a business negotiation rather than romantic courting.

Upping the ante.

In November John changed his plans. Instead of buying a motor home he decided to relocate and move in with me. He scheduled his relocation to Europe for September 2016. His plan was to drive and move slowly all across America first for almost a year, visiting his kids, grandkids and relatives to say goodbye to them. In August he expected to reach New York, visit his two sons, sell the car, purchase his flight ticket and leave for Europe permanently. I thought, “Fine, I have one year to get to know him better and decide how to handle this strange relationship.”

In December 2015 John changed his mind again and decided he could no longer live without me. He wanted to relocate as soon as possible and rescheduled his flight for January (without even asking me if it was convenient to me or not). Instead of being happy as a kid on Christmas Day I got really scared. I thought, “Man, this is moving too fast!” I was really alarmed when John added, “I was thinking about where to find the money for my flight ticket because in January and February I will still need to pay some bills in America, and I got a brilliant idea! Who cares about paying some stupid bills! I do not intend to return to America so why should I worry about paying them? I can use the money to be with my baby in just a couple of weeks!”
This message threw me totally off balance. What kind of man just decides to neglect his financial obligations on an impulse?

When I look back I think this was a ruse. I am almost sure he had no bills to pay (he had no property, no car, no assets – so what bills might be waiting for him to pay?) What I suspect is he was trying to make me feel guilty and responsible for his arrival and spending so much money on his flight ticket (only for me of course!) so that I would feel grateful, obliged and indebted to him forever. That way I would not dare ask him to contribute anything when he arrived, or buy food or things for some time, maybe many months.In the meantime he might be putting his pension aside in a secret account for his dream motor home perhaps. Or something else. If I dared to ask him to contribute, he could always pull out his winning card and remind me of his sacrifice and thoughtful gesture: “I spent so much money in January for you only. I would expect you to appreciate it and return the favour”, or something like that.

I said nothing to dissuade him from coming. To be honest, I was still convinced he was making fun of me….Or, that it might be one of those online romance scams. The scenario fit it perfectly well (the scammer pretends to be very interested in visiting his “love” and in the very last moment something unexpected “pops up”: he has a bad accident on the way to airport, he gets mugged or robbed, etc. And then he is in a huge need of money for hospital bills and needs the victim to bail him out.).

John Moves In.

On the day of his scheduled arrival I went to the airport and was waiting in the arrival lounge. And when he suddenly turned up, I got incredibly emotional. I ran up to him, hugged and kissed him saying, ” So you did come! I can´t believe my eyes!” But his reaction was strange. He acted indifferent, only kissed me lightly saying, “Hi, baby” and immediately made his way to the exit. I could see a stupid smile on his face and felt something was…off. I would expect the man who was so CRAZY in love with me to be a lot more emotional and enthusiastic, to hug and kiss “the love of his life” more passionately … but that did not happen.

We were travelling to my place by bus and all the way he was chatting up the people around us and flirting with the women who happened to be sitting close enough. I was now something like a live accessory. Strange. In my flat the situation was similar. So talkative and funny on Messenger, but here he was and he was barely talking to me.

His reaction when I let him in my flat was ridiculous. He looked round the room, saw my collection of dog statues ( I have been breeding and showing dogs for 30 years and many breeders and dogs owners have been supplying me with such gifts) and said to no one in particular but within earshot of me, “Uh-huh …obsessive compulsive disorder.” Next he came up to the cupboard where I have plenty of cups, medals and rosettes from dog shows and started studying them very thoroughly. When I began to show him things in my flat as I expected he would be interested in everything in his new home, he could hardly keep attention on anything and he seemed unfocused and distracted, not noticing what I was telling him anymore. He seemed to be impatient and want to move onto the next thing, and then the next.

For the first three days after his arrival, there weren’t any problems. I went to work and left John alone and when I returned I saw he had bought some groceries, cooked lunch, taken the dogs out and fed them, he had even done some cleaning and fixed broken shelves and things which my ex-husband had not been able to repair for ages. He seemed to be very proud of himself. And I was really impressed. On day four he probably came to a conclusion he had made a great first impression and that was enough, I was not deserving any more, so he stopped doing things . Perhaps I was not giving him the attention he had expected to get.

In a couple more days he started criticising:

My flat: cold, too small, sub-standard. He said he had seen many bad apartments in America, but none of those places were as bad as this one. He did not understand how I could not afford a better place and had to live within my means or even below them so that I could save some money for rainy days. But he knew exactly how big my flat was ahead of time and what it looked like because I had described it and shown him pictures. When he saw the pictures, he had promised to help me renovate and upgrade it. Now he just said, “Well…okay, it can be renovated, sure, but it will still remain a very small space.” Just one of the very, very many promises he made and never kept.

The city: ugly, boring, all buildings look the same. He could not understand why foreign tourists loved it, blah, blah. He could not live in such a sub-standard country, this is not a home to him. We live here like it’s the XIX century. Prices are too high. “How come you earn so little money and have such high prices and you do nothing about it?” he complained. He had champagne tastes on a beer budget.

My lifestyle: music ” consumes” me. When we were still chatting on Messenger I asked him openly, “Are you ready to accept my lifestyle – taking part in dog shows, going to see concerts of guitar bands in various countries, car meetings, etc.?” He said yes. And now I got blamed for this all because he had left America and everything he loved behind, including his family and friends just for me, but I was not willing to “make any changes in my lifestyle.”

In bed I was too quiet. He wanted me to be loud and talk dirty to him. He made it clear he must be my # 1 prority, as he had only come here for me (this was repeated several times) and all his time, his devotion and his money were mine now. Anything else – my job, dogs, interests, passions, friends were not to be as important to me as him. Instead of earning my trust, love and respect, he was demanding and enforcing them.

Soon he was getting offended by everything. He did not cook anymore. I took the dogs for their walks. He either went with me or not, depending on his mood and whether or not my behavior merited his company. He was becoming moody and easily hurt by little things. I began to walk on eggshells, never sure what might set him off. Everything he did was “my way or the highway,” no compromises allowed. I was even afraid of expressing my wishes or dreams. He was now my boss making all decisions and I was a subordinate who had to listen and obey.

On day six he gave me the cold shoulder and spent the whole evening pretending to watch TV in a language he didn’t even understand just to keep from talking to me. I ignored him right back. Because the silent treatment failed to work, the next day John tried out another tactic. When I came back from work I found him lying on the sofa. He announced very proudly he had not taken the dogs out or fed them. I shrugged my shoulders and said I would do it, no problem. But I was thinking about the fact that I had looked forward to getting an equal partner and a helping hand, but instead I got a moody, capricious, angry teenager.

(Continued in Part Two)

My narcissist hipster upstairs neighbor.

Posted on September 17, 2016 by luckyotter

first_world_problems

I live in a duplex with a shared parking area. I’ve had new upstairs neighbors for a few months. They are youngish hipsters (probably in their mid 20s) who seemed okay at first. When they moved in I wanted to make them feel welcome, so I gave them a bottle of locally made wine (knowing that as hipsters they would probably like such a gift) which was pretty expensive too, and offered the use of my front porch anytime.

It seems like my efforts at goodwill didn’t mean much. They fight every night (it’s always him I hear) and are completely uncooperative in every way you can imagine. Or at least the guy is.

I never see the fiancee, who is supposedly an artist of some kind, but the guy has proved to be a passive-aggressive d**k. His behavior seems to indicate severe, possibly malignant, covert narcissism. I wonder if his fiancee is so silent and invisible because she suffers from PTSD.

First was the problem I had with their cat. They have two Himalayans, and for about a month, one of them was always sitting in front of my door and would try to get inside whenever I went to open it. My roommate told me this cat would be sitting out there all day on one of the porch chairs. It seemed like they expected us to take her in, and maybe they thought I was a “crazy cat lady” because there are already 3 cats in this small apartment. My daughter’s cat, BabyCat, has anxiety and territorial issues, and was beginning to act very sketchy and neurotic, compulsively grooming and meowing anxiously whenever the neighbor’s cat was outside my front door, which was most of the time.

I called my neighbor about the problem and he said snottily, “well, we can’t keep her upstairs, because she doesn’t get along with our other cat, and she doesn’t like being inside anyway.”

Well, then, idiot, why don’t you re-home her? I didn’t tell him this. He did nothing. The cat was still outside. She was dirty and unkempt and it looked like she was never fed. I called him again a few days later and left a message. I got no response. Being an animal lover, I hated the fact I had to start chasing her away, but what else could I do? Even if I could have taken in another cat, which I absolutely can’t, he probably would have been angry about it.

One day he saw me chasing the cat away from my front door and gave me a look that could kill, so I knew he was mad (he probably thinks I’m “cruel to animals” even though I’m anything but. But after that, I didn’t see the cat again.

mangy_cat

Not their cat, just one I found on Google but the expression on this cat is epic.

Now I’m dealing with the parking issue. They have two cars, and between myself, my daughter, and my roommate, we have 3. So there a total of five cars parked in a space that can really only hold three. The neighbors are environmentalists and don’t want to “ruin the grass”, even though they have never once mowed it (mowing the shared large front yard and the back yard falls on me, or whoever I can get to do it–and their side of the house is covered with 3 foot tall weeds). So what they do is they park both their cars on the gravel, and don’t bother to angle their cars so that I can get out easily in the morning (I have to back up over the gravel driveway to get out). This guy is completely uncooperative, as you can see from these two phone conversations. His tone seems snotty and entitled to me and he’s a liar too.

First text conversation:

textconv1_1

He was lying. I could hear him and a bunch of their friends upstairs. They never did move the car, and the next morning I almost hit it trying to back out.

In the second text conversation, the last message got sort of messed up, but I was trying to explain that I couldn’t use the other entrance because that goes into the parking area of the apartment complex next door, and they don’t want us to drive through there so it’s usually blocked off. I would be forced to drive through the yard to get around that. So backing out is really the only way.

Second text conversation (this was today):

textconv2_1

textconv2_2

textconv2_3

I finally got him to agree to angle his car differently so I can get out, but not until I threatened to call the landlord about the problem (that part can’t be seen in the text conversation, because I told him this over the phone) and that if he didn’t start to angle his car, I would probably hit it trying to get out.

I hate the way this narcissistic brat is forcing me to resort to threats and aggression. That’s not me at all, but it’s the only thing that seems to work with him, and the fiancee might as well be a ghost because I never even see her at all. I wonder if they’ll make it to actual marriage.

“Will the real victim please stand up?”

Posted on September 9, 2016 by luckyotter

Some narcissists (especially if they’e covert) pretend to be victims of narcissistic abuse. How do you know, when someone tells you they have been abused, if they are telling the truth, or if they are just trying to manipulate you and get your sympathy so they can use and abuse you themselves later? It can be hard to tell. This article explains the telltale signs of an impostor and how their behavior differs from that of a real victim.

Comments have been disabled; please leave comments under the original post.

Will The Real Victim Please Stand Up?

Reblog from After Narcissistic Abuse

true-vs-false-victim

It’s NOT EASY using the V word.

Personally, I don’t LIKE it. It’s not a word I’ve used to describe myself through very many situations in my life, because I am the kind of person who takes responsibility for things that happen to me. While, I certainly had choices and consequences (thus responsibility) in my relationship with a narcissist as an adult – it is the only experience I think the V label accurately describes and depicts.

I was caught unaware. I was told things that weren’t true. By relying on those things, I made decisions that put me in harms way. I was sold a bill of goods and promises by a person who was well aware that they had no intention of ever delivering on those promises nor being capable of being a good person towards me, so that he could use me for things that benefited one person in the “relationship”: THE NARCISSIST.

This being said, I don’t throw this word “Victim” around LIGHTLY. I think that the topic of FALSE VICTIM claims by narcissists should be evaluated with a more discerning eye when considering the damage and injustice done by a narcissist to the lives that their false allegations destroy.

Let’s examine the traits of a well-trained pathological liar, a narcissist; with a history of duping others and manipulating to avoid responsibility vs a credible, honest, albeit “emotional” target of the narcissist.

False Victim vs. True Victim

1. Flat Affect.

A FALSE VICTIM isn’t emotionally vibrant and attached to the events which they are sharing that were abusive. They appear as if they’ve just gotten back from a calming vacation. Very smooth. Cool. Detached.

Whereas, a TRUE VICTIM will appear FRAZZLED, RUFFLED and SPENT. They’ll cry hysterically, appear jumpy, nervous and afraid. They’ll space out then come back to the conversation with shocking emotion. They have an urgency with their speech and inflection and it will be PEPPERED with emotions that are all over the place. There are instances of true victims of narcissists who are completely detached and disengaged; hopelessly depressed with a flat affect from the abuse. There will still be evidence of victimization in that “spaced out” appearance not like the cold, cool demeanor of a lying narcissist.

TRUE VICTIMS experience the grieving process. Shock. Denial. Anger. moving all the way through acceptance. Whereas a FALSE VICTIM will appear to get over the emotions of the experience rather quickly. They don’t appear to dwell, (ruminate / obsess) over the “abusive” experiences.

Read the rest of the warning signs in the original post.

A Covert Narcissist’s Worst Nightmare, by Anonymous.

Posted on August 20, 2016 by luckyotter

I saw this today and thought it was brilliant and creative, so I’m reposting it. I’m pretty sure it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. 😉

A Covert Narcissist’s Worst Nightmare

By Anonymous.

You wake up one day and all the people who once respected and liked you, and gave you supply — supply that gave you esteem and a sense of self — have turned against you, because they found out you were a Narcissist, and now they’ve actually all conspired together, in an attempt to systematically destroy your false-self, because “that’s what’s best for you honey.” Your family ostracizes you. Your work is no longer valued. Any attempt to garner supply from others is met with contempt and slights and ridicule. Now every innocuous glance and comment is an attempt to put you down. Rage just pushes people away, as does snapping and hurting others. Your inwardly-constructed personal reality and persecutory delusions that originally took the blame off yourself, and upheld your false self, begin to falter, and you focus more on your deeply wounded true-self.

So you buy a Ferrari and drive around and associate with your fellow yuppies, trying to look cool and make others think so too, but they just see you as trying too hard, and all your associates stop hanging out with you, because they don’t think you’re worthy anymore. “Mr. Nobody” is your new nickname. Even your attempts to get supply on social media is met with zero likes.

Turning inward to fantasy (violent and grandiose) and narcissistic withdrawal, and numbness, you try to generate supply from the inside, which works for a while, until even that fails. Taking drugs and getting drunk to escape from the nightmare just makes things worse. No matter what you do, you can’t ever get any more supply.

Everyone sees how fake you are, including your friends; they see you are over-exposed and vulnerable. It turns out no one appreciates you anymore, probably because they were all narcs themselves. You try to fight it, but you know it’s the truth. You feel the very essence of who you are break apart — pure ego death — and there is nothing you can do about it. You know that the only way to feel alive is to get gratification from others, and in the end — you can’t get it at all, and suicide seems like the only option. (My note–Please don’t do this if you have NPD and lost all your supply–go get some professional help ASAP!)

But then it turns out it was all just a bad dream, like the ending of “Click”, and you go on living your life the way you always did, using others to pump up your false self, blissfully unaware of your own inadequacies.

3 common types of narcissists.

Posted on August 14, 2016 by luckyotter

When most people think of a narcissist, they picture the stereotype: a successful, wealthy male who is arrogant, grandiose about his appearance or achievements or intelligence, acts entitled, greedy, lacking in empathy, and is emotionally abusive to his underlings and his family. He thinks far too highly of himself and while no one likes him, everyone respects him (or is terrified of him). He doesn’t care if you’re scared of him or not; he just wants you to worship him and do his bidding.

But most narcissists actually don’t fit this stereotype. The traditional DSM description of Narcissistic Personality Disorder fit this stereotype best though, and that’s probably why most people picture an arrogant, successful man when they hear the term NPD. While there definitely are narcissists who fit that description, most probably don’t. And while NPD is usually diagnosed in males (females are far more likely to be labeled BPD or HPD), in actuality it’s probably just as common in women. They’re just less likely to have been diagnosed with it.

I think one reason why NPD is more often given to males is because the label is so stigmatizing that it’s usually only given to people who have broken the law, and the vast majority of convicted criminals are male (ASPD–antisocial personality disorder–is also commonly given to men who have broken the law).

I’ve noticed three main types of narcissists, and they can be either male or female. Only the first type–the grandiose or overt narcissist–fits the traditional stereotype.

1. The Grandiose Narcissist.

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The grandiose, or overt narcissist, fits the traditional stereotype of someone with NPD. There are probably more males of this type than females, but both exist. A grandiose narcissist is drunk on pride, and will become extremely angry or abusive should you question his superiority or attempt to expose him as the narcissist he really is. Most grandiose narcissists are successful, though not all are. Those who aren’t successful act as if they were, spending money they don’t have and bragging about achievements they never earned (or exaggerating them). They use others for their own gain because they can’t recognize that those around them are human beings with feelings, not objects to be used and discarded as they see fit. Grandiose narcissists expect you to worship them and look up to them as paragons of superiority in whatever they have deemed themselves to be the “best” at–maybe it’s their appearance or body (somatic narcissist) or maybe it’s their intelligence or achievements (cerebral narcissist). If you criticize them they become extremely upset and angry and will either attack or sometimes, give you the silent treatment. They expect the world from you but will give you nothing in return, for you, lowly servant, only exist to worship them and give them the admiration and adulation they expect as their birthright.

A woman of this type is likely to be conceited about her beauty or perfect physical appearance, and looks down on those who don’t fit her standards of physical perfection. But there are plenty of cerebral female narcissists too. Both types tend to act snobbish and arrogant toward those they regard as beneath them. She will also be demanding and high maintenance in relationships, demanding constant attention and adulation. She would never admit it but she is actually extremely needy and will eventually drive away lovers (or unceremoniously discard them herself when they fail to meet her impossible standards).

The next two types are both examples of the covert narcissist. Covert narcissists are less grandiose but in their own ways, they act just as entitled and have little to no empathy. They are a lot less obvious than the grandiose type, and because of that, can be more dangerous because you never expected such a “nice” person to be so abusive. Covert narcissists are the real crazymakers, because they’re good at twisting everything around to make you seem like the abuser or “bad guy” while they remain blameless.

2. The Do-Gooder.

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Mother Teresa herself has nothing on the Do-Gooder. She is a saint, a paragon of virtue, and never, ever does anything wrong. She attends church every Sunday, reads her Bible, volunteers at the food pantry or at the church or school, and if she can afford to, gives a good chunk of her money to various charitable organizations. She’s the stereotypical Jewish mother who always frets and worries about your well-being, but is really overbearing and her “overprotection” is really all about controlling you. She will smother you with her “concern” and make you long to escape to freedom. She may make it difficult for you to do things on your own: you will be told you “need her help” or her company even if you don’t need or want it. If you tell her to back off and give you some space, she’s likely to take on the Victim role, acting all butt-hurt, maybe even crying. She will guilt-trip you, whining, “But I was only trying to HELP!” or, “I’m your mother–and you treat me so badly.” There are male Do-Gooders too, but I think it’s probably more common in females.

Do Gooders also like to act all sanctimonious and self righteous, like the Church Lady in the old Saturday Night Live skits. She loves to make others feel inferior by devoting the MOST time to a charitable event, the MOST money to a cause, baked the MOST cookies for the school bake sale, and then crow about how much she has done, and how much God favors her because of all her good, unselfish deeds. If you have failed to meet her standards of saintliness, she will give you a condescending, withering look, making you feel like the worst person on earth.

3. The Victim.

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The victim type of narcissist is the opposite of grandiose, but is just as entitled and lacking in empathy. These are emotional vampires that will suck everything out of you until you’re so exhausted and depressed you just want to go shoot yourself in the head. The victim gets their supply in the form of sympathy or pity. She will tell you all her problems and expect you to always be there at her beck and call, no matter how inconvenient this is for you. She will make demands on you, expecting you to drop everything to listen to her latest crisis and will show no empathy if you have needs that take priority to hers. In fact she may become angry or try to make you feel guilty, or project her own narcissism onto you and call you selfish. But the favor won’t be returned: if you ever have a problem of your own and want a listening ear or shoulder to cry on, she will either ignore you or find a way to turn the conversation back to her. No matter how much you try to help, they keep making the same mistakes and never seem to grow or change.

These kinds of covert narcissists are especially infuriating because no matter what you suggest, she or he will find an excuse as to why what you suggest would never work. They are frustrating because they never listen, and never thank you for your time. They don’t really want your help; they just want your undivided attention and sympathy because it’s their preferred form of narcissistic supply.