It’s all about image: the skewed values of narcissistic families

Posted on November 2, 2014 by luckyotter

Last night I read a blog post by another survivor of narcissistic parents , and was astounded by how similar her parents’ values were to mine.

She writes that her father criticized her for being too idealistic. Now that would normally be a compliment, but because her family valued nothing but money, class and image, it was meant to be an insult. My father (who I don’t think is a narcissist, but has always been a huge narcissist apologist and enabler), said exactly the same thing to me.

We live in a narcissistic and materialistic society, that increasingly values traits that are narcissistic and exalt the individual over the community. In fact, studies have shown that a high percentage of CEOs, top executives, Wall Street tycoons, and others of the “One Percent” have narcissistic personality disorder. It’s a disorder that is very adaptive in modern society and whose traits are rewarded with money and material goods. Especially since the 1980s, with its “Greed is Good” ethos, we reward those who act in their own self interest over those who act in the interests of the community and want to help the less fortunate. There’s even a meme that’s become especially popular with narcissistic Baby Boomers: “I’m spending my children’s inheritance,” as though this is something to be proud of.

My family bought right into this ethos. Image was everything to my parents, especially my mother. My parents looked down on our blue-collar neighbors and relatives, and my mother in particular constantly made jokes at their expense and talked about how much better we were because we had nicer things and my father had a better (meaning white collar) job in the city. Appearance mattered, and our clothes had to come from the best department stores, never Sears. We had to live in the most exclusive neighborhoods. To not have a college degree was considered a mortal sin, and even then, it was far better to be successful in the cold-hearted business world than to be a successful teacher, social worker or a nurse. Such things were regarded as jobs for those who couldn’t do anything else, and of course they required a level of idealism that my parents just couldn’t relate to. When my parents split up when I was 14, my extremely image-conscious mother took up public relations as a career, which is all about image. She had so many face-lifts that today her face looks like a mask.

Whenever my parents, my mother in particular, complimented someone else, it was always on their visible, tangible qualities–things like their appearance, home decor, financial status, and taste in clothes. Table manners were of utmost importance, but being a good person was not. I can’t remember a time when my mother ever complimented anyone for qualities such as sweetness, generosity, friendliness and altruism. I do remember her putting down others for having these qualities, calling them “insipid” or accusing them of having no backbone.

My values never matched those of my immediate family, and when I became poor as an adult (because I was never given the tools and self esteem that would have led me to make better choices) I was shunned and rejected by them. I don’t think it’s any accident that when narcissistic parents choose a scapegoat, they usually choose the most sensitive child–the one most likely to be empathetic and have idealistic values. To a narcissist, idealism and empathy are weaknesses. They truly believe that the poor deserve to be poor, and they make no exception for their own child. The child with traits that cause them to become a scapegoat (and who all too often are also bullied at school) would probably become successful if they were raised in a loving, nurturing home, but in a narcissistic home, having these traits is a curse because that child is led to believe they are worthless and this leads to cowardly, “safe” choices that are more likely to lead to poverty. They are constantly told they will fail, that nothing they do is good enough, and then are usually “tossed out to the wolves” at a young age, with no family financial or emotional support to help them get a foothold in the larger world. I have read so many blogs by the scapegoated children of narcissistic families, who were forced to make their own way in the world with no family support, even if their parents could have afforded to help them, and even when other children in the family (who were not scapegoated) did receive support when they entered adulthood.

What is so ironic about all this is we scapegoats are rejected and hated for the very traits that were instilled in us as children! Scapegoated children are not encouraged to think independently or have ideas of their own. In fact, having a mind of one’s own is reason for punishment and abuse. We were trained to be deferent and obedient–and very much afraid. Deference, obedience and fear are not traits that lead to success in modern life. I think this training is deliberate, in that an evil narcissistic parent needs and wants someone they can use as the family trashcan–someone who can take and absorb all the family pathology and carry its burden. This child is then blamed for everything that goes wrong both within the family and in their own lives. When a scapegoated child becomes an adult, their low self esteem and fear almost inevitably leads to a life of material and financial lack, and this gives the narcissist parents an excuse for rejecting that child and refusing to help–for “violating” their materialistic, self-centered values. I think another reason narcissistic parents train HSP (highly sensitive) children to be scapegoats is because they know an HSP child must be silenced: this is a child who sees through their lies and can use the light of truth to blow the whistle on them. If they are encouraged to think and act independently, they might “out” the narcissistic parent and that is a prospect that terrifies them.

Of course, the best revenge for a scapegoated child is to become successful in spite of their upbringing–and of course there are those who have. Even then, narcissistic parents will find reasons to put that child’s accomplishments down as somehow not “good enough.” The few times in my adult life where I had some legitimate tangible success, I was never praised for it, but given some sort of left-handed compliment or told why it didn’t really count. I was also always compared with my more financially successful older half-siblings, who of course never had been designated the family scapegoat.

Narcissistic parents also don’t care if you have a mental disability. I’m a self-diagnosed Aspie (this was later confirmed by a psychiatrist) and suffer from intermittent major depression, but when I tried to tell my parents these were the reasons why I had so much trouble making the social connections necessary to become financially successful, these diagnoses were dismissed. I was told I was “making excuses.” Both my parents are convinced my poverty is my own fault because of the stupid choices I made. While I don’t deny having made dumb choices, these choices were based on the way I had been raised–to be afraid of taking any risks or challenging myself.

The only way to break the narcissist/scapegoat family dynamic (and it is probably the most toxic parent-child combination imaginable) is by cutting off contact with the abusive parent, because as long as you keep trying to please them, they will continue to attempt to break you down and make you feel insignificant. Nothing will ever please them, even if you dare to become more successful than they are. And if you somehow manage to do this without sacrificing your idealistic and empathetic values, that’s the biggest threat to them of all.

Make no mistake: your narcissistic parent doesn’t love you and never will, but it isn’t your fault. They hate you because they envy those qualities you have–empathy and humanity–that elude them. Be a good parent to yourself. Love yourself. You deserve it.

Narcissists don’t change

Posted on November 1, 2014 by luckyotter

I read a lot of blogs written by ACONs (Adult Children of Narcissists) and without exception, all these survivors yearned (or still yearn) for the parental love they were entitled to but never received.

Narcissists can’t feel love. Sure, they might pretend they love you when others are present (they’re great at wearing masks and keeping up appearances), but their true nature doesn’t even know the meaning of the word love.

For many years into adulthood, I wanted nothing more than for my narcissistic mother to approve of me. Like most narcissists, she was all about appearance and image. When I was young, she was obsessed with my weight and physical appearance, and always insisted on making me into her own image. She herself was vain, and seemed incapable of discussing deep topics or ideas. Narcissists have an uncanny ability to never show any vulnerable side of themselves, and this includes sharing any dreams with you. I’m not talking about the kind you have when you sleep, but the kind of dreams that give us hope for happiness in this life. I can’t remember one time when my mother ever shared a dream with me. She was already perfect–she didn’t need to have a dream. She also never, not once, ever shared a true emotion with me. She was incapable of being vulnerable or showing anyone (especially me) any vulnerability. And in keeping with that, she was incapable of empathy. She could never understand my feelings or hurts, and was usually more than happy to add to my hurts. I remember once, she made fun of me after she said a particularly hurtful thing, and then mocked the sad expression on my face–you know, pouting in an exaggerated way and drawing fake tears down her cheeks.

She was part of the positive thinking tyranny. (For more on how some people misuse the positive thinking movement, see this article.) Many narcissists use the positive thinking movement as a way to shame others for having feelings or to avoid taking responsibility. They’re big fans of positive thinking slogans, such as “your feelings are your own responsibility, not mine” or “you have chosen to be poor because of your negative attitude.” I remember once when I was being treated unfairly at my job (by a narcissistic boss, of course) instead of showing support and offering words of comfort, my N mother made my boss the victim, essentially telling me I probably caused him and my coworkers to dislike me because of my “negative attitude.” This is the sort of “love” you’ll get from a narcissist.

Narcissists also have an odd way of dismissing sentimentality. My mother never kept family photos around the house (because they were too “tacky”) and all the family photos were stashed into albums and boxes and packed away in the attic. A few years ago, I told my mother I would like to have some of the family photos, but she avoided the issue and changed the subject. About a year later, annoyed at being asked about them for the umpteenth time, she told me she had thrown them away. Who throws away family photos?! I was gobsmacked, but at the same time, I thought how typical that was of her. She could have sent them to me if she didn’t want them, but no, that would have made me happy, so throwing them away was better.

Back in those days, I hadn’t gone No Contact yet, and whenever in my mother’s presence, I felt small and belittled. Even when she didn’t actually say anything mean, there was always that condescending, withering look. I always felt nervous before having to see her or talk to her, without quite knowing why.

Now I know why (even though she always told me I was the crazy one who was being paranoid), and I’ve been No Contact now for almost three years. She sends me a birthday card every year, with phony mass produced Hallmark messages of love. When I get these cards, I just toss them in the trash. Coming from her, they mean nothing. She won’t ever change, because narcissists can’t. Trying to please a narcissist won’t work, so don’t waste your time. It will only wind up causing you frustration and hurt. They only want you on their side so they can use you. If they’re nice to you, it means they probably sense you pulling away from them. They can’t have that.

Of course I regret not having a loving parent or extended family. I regret not being able to see my mother (and her various flying monkeys, most of whom are also relatives) on big holidays like Christmas and Thanksgiving. I regret not ever having had the experience of a real heart to heart talk with my own mother. I can’t help feeling sad when others ask me where I’m going for holidays and have to tell them, “nowhere.” Because you see, my mother turned just about everyone in her extended family against me. Most of them barely know me, but narcissists are usually persuasive people who could sell ice to an Eskimo, and my mother’s “sold” me as a horrible, ungrateful, unsuccessful loser who doesn’t deserve happiness.

In my family, only visible evidence of success and physical attractiveness is acceptable. If you’re fat, unattractive, poor or disabled, you’re a “nothing” or a “nobody,” even if you’re a great person. My mother has actually used those words to discuss a cousin of mine, who is morbidly obese. “Laura’s a nothing.” She overlooks the fact that Laura is an accomplished artist who has won awards in several art shows, and also volunteers at her local food pantry. As for me, I am not rich or successful (because I was never given the tools and the self esteem to become successful as an adult), and so I’m a “nothing” too. She looks down on my poverty, and blames me for it.

I don’t need narcissistic people in my life, and one by one I have been weeding them out. And as I do so, I am growing, finding out what Lucky Otter is really all about. I’m finding out that I’m a pretty great person who is just blooming late in life.

Too bad my N mother won’t ever know the real me. Not that she’d care.

If you have a narcissistic parent, the most loving thing you can do for yourself is to make it impossible for them to hurt you anymore. They aren’t going to change. In fact, they get worse with age. As their looks and health begin to go, they feel extremely threatened by the reality of becoming vulnerable or needy, and rage takes over. They will no longer even pretend to be “nice.” You have to go No Contact, no matter how much it hurts. Rest assured though, you are not hurting them by doing this. They are incapable of feeling hurt. You’ll only hurt yourself if you remain in their thrall.

“We Need to Talk about Kevin”: are psychopaths born or made?

Posted on October 23, 2014 by luckyotter

Eva Khatchadourian (played brilliantly by Tilda Swinton) is a former travel writer who’s ambivalent about her first pregnancy, and doesn’t seem to be able to connect with her newborn son Kevin, an infant who cries constantly and squirms away whenever she tries to hold him. Eva also suffers from postpartum depression and lack of sleep, which doesn’t make it any easier to connect with her ornery child. Eva as a new mother has the look of a concentration camp survivor. She is utterly tormented by her son–and her inability to feel maternal love for him.

As Kevin grows older, it’s apparent there’s something not quite right about him. Even as a very young boy of three or four, he has an unnerving, soul-piercing stare and never smiles or laughs. Though obviously very intelligent, Kevin isn’t out of diapers until he is 6 or 7, and refuses to engage with others, especially with Eva. He becomes disruptive at home and at school, and is always in trouble. Besides seeming to do things deliberately to upset Eva, Kevin bullies other kids at school, and encourages one girl, who has a severe skin disorder, to pick at her scabs. He’s sneaky and devious and shows no remorse for his bad behaviors. He seems to have only two facial expressions: sullen, or self-satisfied sneer when he’s gotten away with something.

There’s one poignant scene when Kevin becomes very sick and this is the only time he shows any vulnerability and allows himself to be mothered like a normal child. Here, while Kevin’s defenses are down and his mask of impending psychopathy is temporarily disabled, we can catch a fleeting glimpse of little-boy innocence and neediness and some emotion that may even resemble love. This scene makes you begin to question whether Kevin was born evil, or if his psychopathy may have been caused by Eva’s failure to bond with him as an infant.

The rest of the time, there’s an disturbing lack of innocence in Kevin. There’s an unsettling scene when Kevin, about age 3, is sitting on the floor while Eva rolls a ball to him. Not only does he fail to roll the ball back, but he fixes her with his unnerving hateful stare, a look you wouldn’t believe such a young child could be capable of.

As Kevin grows into adolescence (adolescent Kevin is played with subtle and chilling power by Ezra Miller), his misdeeds become more serious, and start to endanger not only his fellow students and teachers, but other members of his own family. At one point he does something unspeakable to his younger sister, Celia (a child his mother wanted and who is temperamentally Kevin’s polar opposite–a sweet and empathetic child), and then smoothly lies about it without showing a shred of empathy or remorse. The strain of raising this difficult child eventually destroys Eva’s marriage to Kevin’s father, Franklin (played by John C. Reilly), who disagrees with his wife’s belief that Kevin is disturbed and naively continues to insist he is a normal, loving child but that Eva’s attitude toward him is cold and unmotherly. Eva herself is torn–she seems to try her best to do and say the right things to Kevin, but it’s clear nothing is getting through to him and the strain is destroying her.

Things come to a head when Kevin commits a shocking crime at age 15 followed by another that is even more heinous. The entire film is told in flashbacks, in the form of Eva’s letters to her husband Franklin (who has left Eva and whose whereabouts are a mystery until the end of the film) and conversations between Kevin and Eva while he is in prison.

Eva tries to come to term with what has happened, to deal with the aftermath and ostracization by everyone the family knew, and most of all, what part she may have played in her son’s crimes. One question that runs throughout the film: was Eva a bad mother who caused her child to become bad, or was Kevin just born bad?

In the final scenes between Eva and Kevin while he’s in prison, it’s possible to see how sophisticated and subtle Kevin’s manipulations of Eva have become. Theirs is a complicated relationship: while he obviously hates her, it also becomes evident he has more respect for her than for his father, who always showered him with unconditional love and for whom Kevin has nothing but dismissive, snarling contempt.

“We Need to Talk About Kevin” (based on the 2003 book by Lionel Shriver) is one of the most chilling and thought provoking movies about psychopathy I’ve ever seen, and like other great psychological thrillers, it asks more questions about human nature than it answers.

The only way to handle a narcissist if you must deal with one.

Posted on October 20, 2014 by luckyotter

Cut them off when they start to get nasty. And they will get nasty. Narcissists may love bomb you for a short time and try to gain (or in my case, regain) your trust, but make no mistake: they ARE out to get you. You can NOT trust them. They will NOT change. Ever. No amount of reasoning with them or logic will change the way they are or the way they will try to use you and put you down. YOU are ALWAYS wrong. They are ALWAYS right. No exceptions. They’re not stupid: they actually DO know you ARE right, but knowing you are right makes them VERY ANGRY. They will start hurling insults at you and making your life miserable.

There is only one solution at that point: CUT THEM OFF. It may not be possible to go No Contact in certain situations (particularly if a child is involved), but if you can’t, you can cut them off or refuse to speak anymore to them until they are CIVIL and treat you with RESPECT. Eventually they will have to stop insulting you and at least pretend they respect you if they want something from you, otherwise IGNORE THEM and their demands. If they want something from you badly enough, they can ask for it RESPECTFULLY. If they can’t or won’t, they will just have to LIVE WITHOUT IT.

And of course, you can always just say NO. Saying NO won’t kill you. If it pisses off your narcissist, they will just need to deal with it. Do NOT let him (or her) manipulate you into giving them something you don’t want to give them.

In reading back over the two text conversations with my ex, these are the things I have learned. My narcissist won’t ever change. Your narcissist won’t either. Do NOT let them fool you. They’ve been trying to make a fool of you all along.

Conversation with a narcissist: part two

Posted on October 20, 2014 by luckyotter

I didn’t blog about it, but this weekend my daughter was admitted to the psychiatric ward due to major depression. I was concerned because she hadn’t gotten out of bed or eaten anything in 4 days. Her father who is a psychopath and a narcissist, seemed concerned as well and met me at the hospital where we waited several hours for her to be admitted. He was actually pleasant for a change, and while I didn’t allow his charm to lure me into giving away too much information or convince me he wasn’t really that bad, I thought maybe…just maybe…he might be changing. After all, he did seem to care about his daughter’s well-being (even if it was to ensure he could continue to manipulate her after she gets out).

Boy, was I wrong.

After that meeting, he won’t stop texting me, and last night it was getting so annoying I finally just stopped answering his constant texts (mostly to ask for things of his he needed that I have in my house–as always, it’s all about him). I guess that pissed him off, because first thing this morning, he texted me again, and these texts quickly turned nasty. Here’s the conversation. I’ll let it speak for itself.

Michael: please when you bring the computer and black backpack, please please bring a tube of BIOFREZE…I have serious strain in my left bicep, it’s killing me. It’s in the cabinet in the bathroom.

Michael: today is one of the only days you can go to work knowing that Molly is safe, and you won’t come home to find her dead. Rejoice!

Me: That’s a shitty thing to say esp first thing in the morning

Michael: Re read it

Me: If a joke that’s pretty fucked up

Michael: you are reading it wrong. Or is English a second language for you?

Me: How the fck am I reading it wrong? I also don’t appreciate the little dig there on my intelligence

Michael: you told me every day you worry u would come home and find her dead [this is true]. well you do not have to worry today cause she is safe. I cannot help it that you are an idiot.

Me: U want me to stop talking to you? Then keep it up. I’m not a fucking idiot.

Michael: Done. no need to talk. I need that puter and biofreze and do not give away my clothes [he is homeless] Let me know what day you get around to it

Me: I cannot do it until the weekend. No money for gas to get downtown to meet you

Michael: do it on the way home

Me: Do not order me around. I said it would be on the weekend. I already told you I won’t forget as long as I find these things. I cannot do it today, sorry

Me: Tell u what. I’ll call if I can bring them sooner. Now drop it please, I need to get ready for work.

Michael: Feeling Bipolar today I see talk to me when you become rational again. have a nice date. [not sure if this was a deliberate misspelling or not]

I was tempted to hurl an insult back but decided to just ignore him after that last dig. He has not changed. He will never change. I’m glad, however, that my daughter is in a safe place for now and cannot hurt herself.

I promise this will be the last of these narcissist conversations. I think everyone probably gets the idea, but this is the way he operates.

Conversation with a narcissist

Posted on October 17, 2014 by luckyotter

Last week my daughter was in a car wreck (see “Shit Happens”). She has minor injuries to her back and lumbar region but the car (which was in my name and she wasn’t supposed to drive until she got her license reinstated–she is trying to work off a DUI) was totaled. The other driver in the Hyundai SUV was at fault for failing to yield and he wasn’t licensed either.

She waited 3 days to go to the hospital because her back didn’t start bothering her until Saturday (The wreck was on Thursday). I had to give her the driver’s exchange form (which gives all the information about both vehicles, both drivers, and both insurance companies) to show the hospital. She’s been lying in bed for two days and I think she may be having a major depressive episode, which is understandable. But even before the accident, she has been increasingly unreliable and irresponsible. So before she went to the ER, I stressed the importance of getting back this document so I can inform the other driver’s insurance company so we can possibly get some money. I must have told her ten times to please keep it safe and have the hospital make a copy, so what did she do? She returned saying the hospital wouldn’t give it back to her and would not make a copy. Molly lies about a lot of things, and I didn’t believe her. I think she forgot or she lost it. She was also in another county because she was visiting her latest boyfriend, who I think is a meth-head, and it’s very inconvenient for me to drive the 50 miles to that particular hospital to get this document. I need the document SO SHE CAN GET SOME MONEY BACK, or if the other driver’s insurance company fails to pay (because she was not licensed), she could possibly see an attorney and get a settlement for bodily injury. All week I’ve been able to do nothing about this situation because I was missing the most important document.

Yesterday I called the sheriff’s office and gave the name of the officer who wrote her the citation, but oh no, it’s not as simple as just printing me off another copy of the form. I was told (rudely) that I would have to go to the records department at the courthouse (which means taking a day off from work), try to find parking (which is damn near impossible in downtown Asheville), and then stand in line for God only knows how long. My daughter can’t do it because the car’s in my name and she has no way to get downtown anyway.

So finally my psychopath ex-sperm donor texted me and the following conversation ensued. It started off with him offering to help and acting all concerned and fatherly, but pay close attention to the way his smooth manner still can make me trust him and show too much vulnerability, and then later watch the way he starts twisting things around to shift blame and/or make it all about himself. It’s easy to see the pattern and some of you dealing with narcissists will recognize the pattern. Things didn’t get too out of hand though, I did get the needed document, and I think I handled him well.

As always, real names were changed. Comments are in italics and explanations/clarifications are in [brackets]

Michael (x-spath):
Sorry to bother you but try to get Molly a lawyer for her accident a fractured hip means a good settlement and free money. lawyers could even come tothe house to get the info, just worried that she’s throwing another opportunity away. With the settlement she might be able to get another car and pay for school and pay bills at your place. so you have some interest in this. thanks.

Me: I agree w u 100% i really don’t know wat to do…she is very depressed and needs therapy not just meds but refuses to get it…also she lost drivers xchange form when she went to hospital and w/o that i can’t do anything to help her get money back…i have no time to go to records office to get a dup…she has become so unreliable…also stealing..no goals…going nowhere…pissing everything away….so depressed all the time, maybe major depressive episode…i think she needs to be committed to [name of local mental facility] of have an intervention or something i am very concerned…

Michael: [this next message was sent in 24 consecutive texts–while I was working. I have consolidated them]
that info is in the accident report. how does she keep losing stuff…her phone…then she parties after the crash and looses that info. the police will have the report , u must have time date and location plus the car descriptions [telling me what I already know] Talk about irresponsible, geez. Ask her if it was APD [Asheville Police Dept.] or Sheriff. I bet it was APD. call them and get the information, make her pay u for the trouble after the settlement. this is stuff she should be doind instead of feeling sorry for herself.

So far so good.

Me: I’ll try she won’t do anything I ask tho…my ins. may go up as much as 400% after this.

Michael: also your insurance company will have the info since they are going to raise your rates. If they have no info on the crash, then there was no crash and they can

Me: I knew something like this would happen but she is so sneaky, there was no way i could keep her from driving…she always found the key…car was totalled thank God at least she’s alive…but the way she is acting, is like the walking dead [showing too much vulnerability to a narc as usual]

Michael: …not raise rates on a rumor and no police report.

Fair enough. He’s getting me to trust him…

Me: It’s all very overwhelming tbh. [again, showing too much vulnerability]

Michael: Why wasn’t Meth Head [current boyfriend’s name] driving. He has a license. fucking looser. [starting in with the name calling and blame shifting]

Me: Idk, im at work now ttyl (I don’t know, I’m at work now, talk to you later)

Michael: [watch how he starts shifting blame to me]
but you could have taken over the car at some point. now she can’t go to probation or court, good news is that all her druggie friends will not be asking for rides.

Me: True

Me: Idk how low her bottom has to be before she gets some help she just refuses to listen to anything I say…there’s nothing I can do to make her change…I hope you are aware of that…I’m really scared Ill come home one day and find her dead of an overdose…she’s gotta talk to someone

Michael: [now becoming sarcastic as well as shifting blame and shirking any responsibility]
cannot help you there , remember I am homeless thanks to you [because I kicked him out after he beat up my daughter and refused to contribute to the household in any way] but maybe your new roomie can help. I thought it was all rainbows and unicorns after I was gone.

Me: Let’s not go there, ok?

Michael: I like your positive message that you will find her dead. Keep thinking that way and it will happen.
See if you can get the accident report number from the APD. then call a lawyer

Me: ok will do. TTYL, bye.

He is not through yet.

Michael: I texted her on FB to do the same.

Me: Good.

He now sees that I am done and no longer want to talk; starts love bombing with helpful offers.

Michael: well I am next to the APD…I will try to get it for you.

Me: Ok. case # XX-XXXXXX. …ask for the drivers exchange form. Its free i think.

Michael: what day did it happen

Me: Oct 9 thursday

Michael: awesome…at least you were thinking. [notice the dig there–he always used to point out how stupid and lacking in common sense I was]

I chose to ignore the insult and not take it personally although I am very tempted to call him out on this.

Michael: thanks….I will try to get it today. arrange for pick up tonight or on your way home.

Me: thanks…text me later [I was on the job still]

A few hours later:

Michael: Got it! and he [the other driver] was without a doubt at fault as he “Failed to yield.” Molly hopefully has the hospital papers. His ins. company is Integon ..you and Molly need to come up with a reason she waited to go to the hospital…[starts telling me what to say, and what lies to tell] …like she was very upset and no way to get there. Had a friend in [a neighboring county] drive her to that hospital vs. Mission St. Joes. She began to hurt a day or 2 later, but thought it was just sore from seatbelt. [the truth is she did not start to hurt until a few days after the wreck and also was too depressed to get out of bed] ..u can try a lawyer and give them the info you have….time, date location, car model etc, they might be able to take it from there

Michael [continuing on his diatribe]
never mind badmouthing and finding faults. [current boyfriend’s name] is not good for her. You may want to change the PIN # on your bankcard. She or u need that hospital report and get a lawyer very soon. [goes into self pity mode] I am homeless and I don’t have any power to help you with your problems with her. Get this accident claim started and deal with the other stuff later.

Michael: Keep on her lazy ass. It’s free money, but she don’t want to lift a finger [kind of true, actually]. If you get a settlement then go from there…maybe hold the money till she does something positive [ok, I admit that’s fairly reasonable]

Michael: She watches that show. [what show?] C. (ex-boyfriend’s name) was better for her as he wasn’t a fucking meth head like (current bf). just look at his fucking teeth.

Michael: Sucks for you.

Michael: Maybe after you get the insurance process started we could all meet and have coffee. discuss what the hell she is going to do going forward. Even if she goes to rehab, she comes back to the same pill popping friends [actually all of this is the truth unfortunately…but he’s trying to upset me and stir the pot as can be seen in the next sentence]

Michael: or she will get prego by some fucking unemployed drug addled looser.

Nice.

And he’s not done yet.

Michael: she went thru that 20K [her trust fund from my father] in 6-8 weeks. I told her to put money in CDs so she would have some down the road. this time you must make her do that and not blow the money. [notice how he makes it my responsibility to control my adult daughter’s poor choices when I have tried over and over again with no success. This just instills more anxiety and guilt]

Michael: (friend’s name) who she spent like 2K on doesn’t even talk to her. she spent 600 on me and says she gave you 6K [not true, it was about 1K to help with bills] Spent 7K on car, 2K on vacation. paid 2500 on fine [she was and still is on probation]. And the rest on clothes and a lot of pills [probably all true].

Michael: she cannot do that again. she must find a trade. or she will get a felony and be unemployable. [I have talked to her until I’m blue in the face about going to school and cleaning up her life but she refuses to do anything I suggest, and he knows I am powerless.] Ethan [her brother] is going to school, doing all this and she is actually smarter than him. [she has a higher IQ but he is making much smarter choices and doing well, proving IQ means jack shit]

Michael: Find a way to get the report from me toay. I am at the salvation army (homeless shelter). Molly can direct you or take Patton to Precision Tire. We met there before. Use your GPS

Me: ok I can’t read all these til later I’m at work…Thanks for getting it though, I will text u later when I’m off work, thanks

Me: I do have the hospital papers.

Michael: You are thinking today! [another dig] so anyway thats good. does it sat “hip fracture” and “broken toe”?

Me: I have to check later. i am not home rite now.

Michael: ok…come meet me with Molly…she will direct you [I am perfectly capable of finding the meeting place myself] we will get coffee and such. she wants you to get lunchables.

Me: I am still at work! And I’m broke so I can’t buy the snacks today, I hardly have any gas. I need to go home and change first so it wont be 4 a few more hours…

Michael: K after 5 please. Get me McDonalds coffee [after I just told him I was broke]

Me: it will def. be after 5.. R U paying? I can’t buy you coffee, sorry

Michael: I will buy my own…not paying for yours. I am homeless remember? [I didn’t ask him to buy me coffee]
Let me know when you are on the way.

A few hours later…

Me: I’m on the way now. Give me half an hour. Please text when you get this so I know you will be there

Me: Ok?

He doesn’t text back until I am nearly there.

Michael: First left at precision tire, N Ann st. last house, large gravel parking lot. pull in there

He knows my GPS requires an actual address not just a street name.

Michael: Take Molly

Me: she was sleeping. Also need address so i can gps it.

Michael: [repeats previous directions]

Michael: wake her up. Now. do not come if she is not coming. [he never told me to bring her earlier]

Michael: she knows exactly where it is. wake her up as this is for her and not u or me…I will not meet u unless Molly gets her ass out of bed

Me: I am already more than halfway to downtown she didn’t want to get up , please just give me the address.

Michael: no.

Me: ???

Michael: if she can not bother to do the steps to get a settlement on her claim then fuck it.
She awake? Get her in the car.

Me: I can’t I don’t have enough gas to go back now and get her.

–end of conversation–

Finally he gives me the damn address. Then he calls, saying he ALREADY GAVE ME THE ADDRESS earlier, which is a lie. He also said he wouldn’t meet me unless I bought him a coffee, even though I told him I was broke. I was about to turn around and go back, and then decided to use my last couple of bucks for the week to buy him his coffee because I really needed those papers.

I finally got the paper I needed, and also an entire texted conversation that is really very boring and went on ALL DAY, but illustrates clearly the way a narcissist operates. Michael used every trick in the narcissist grab bag: put downs, blame shifting, name calling, manipulation, lies, guilt-tripping, self-pity, gaslighting, and more lies. It made me wonder how the hell I lived with him for so long without putting a bullet in my head.

It also was a wake up call to me–how whenever I’m in his presence I act helpless and vulnerable–and those are exactly the qualities a narcissist both despises and needs like they need air and water. I need to watch that trait more around him and other narcissists and not show so much vulnerability.

I’m tuckered out.

So I decided to blog about it. I had no other ideas for today anyway.

We Need a 12-Step Program for the Self Absorbed

Posted on October 15, 2014 by luckyotter

I came across this article in the Reader and was really impressed by it. It’s also a nice counterpoint to my article from a few days ago, Narcissists who use 12-Step Programs to further Their Agenda.
Enjoy!

See, there's this thing called biology...

Desperately. We’ve become a nation-cult of narcissists, so enamored by our own selves it’s a wonder we don’t just spontaneously combust. It’s so bad people are actually taking selfies of our very own selves. People are consumed by our own health issues, our various disorders, our own particular brokenness, our social concerns. Even in our social concerns it’s become all about us, our martyrdom, we’re the only one who cares, look at me, I’m so socially conscious and aware! Filthy rags, indeed.

Even faith frequently becomes something we like to lord over others, evidence of our own vast moral superiority. Not all of course, but our TV’s are constantly selling prosperity, beauty, and power, for three easy payments of 19.95. Become a Christian, you’ll get free stuff! CS Lewis was right when he said that kind of happiness was to be found in a bottle of port, not in Christianity.

So, in the 12…

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Internet psychopaths: the difference between trolls and bullies

Posted on October 14, 2014 by luckyotter

In my last post about Internet trolls and bullies, I failed to make a clear distinction between the two, but there are differences. They do overlap, but one can be a bully without being a troll or even a psychopath (though all trolls are also bullies and probably all psychopaths).

I started to explain the difference in the comments section, but decided the distinction was important enough to write a post.

Internet trolls are more likely to appear singly (or sometimes as a group) and invade a website or forum with incendiary comments, insults against members or the entire community, and use profanity and namecalling to intimidate the regular posters. Their intent is to destroy the forum or website by running the regular members off. All too often it works, as what happened with the political forum I discussed in my earlier post, where at first the occasional troll would be quickly banned by the moderator and the forum would go back to normal. Once the moderator left and no replacement was made, trolls realized they would not be silenced and could stir the pot all they wished without any repercussions. Forum members tried attacking the trolls, but this was exactly what the trolls were looking for. Soon more trolls joined, and as of now the forum is nearly dead and almost all its regular members have left. Sadly, on that site, the trolls have won. Because their primary intent is to upset or run off the members and ultimately destroy the site, trolls are psychopathic in their behavior.

Like real life psychopaths, trolls will occasionally “love bomb” the site or its members, in order to gain trust and avoid getting banned before systematically destroying or damaging the site. Whether or not they act this way off the Internet doesn’t really matter. Most serial killers act perfectly normal when going about their daily business (John Wayne Gacy was an upstanding citizen, a respected businessman and philanthropist, and entertained children in hospitals dressed as a clown), but have a “secret life” that involves killing for pleasure. A troll is like the cyber version of a serial killer–probably perfectly normal acting off the webs, but using the Internet as a means to murder ideas and honest discussion and debate. In both cases, their intentions are destructive and evil. They also have in common a taste for sadism: both trolls and serial killers love witnessing the destruction they create and get pleasure from making others suffer.

Internet bullies are more common than trolls, and are especially common on forums and social media, where they can easily gang up on one or more members they disagree with or perceive as vulnerable or sensitive. Because they operate in groups (or more aptly, swarms), just as on a school playground, there is probably a “ringleader”–a central bully that eggs on or coerces others to join in the bullying behavior. The ringleader is almost certainly psychopathic or narcissistic and derives pleasure not only from making a target suffer but also from the admiration and respect they gain from their sycophants. Lesser bullies who join the fray may not actually be psychopaths or even narcissistic. Some may not even enjoy bullying that much, but do so to appear to “fit in” or look cool. They are likely to be very young and probably lacking self esteem, so joining a team of bullies to gang up against a targeted member makes them feel like they’re part of a powerful group. It’s a kind of gang mentality: not all gang members are psychopathic or sociopathic, but join the gang to feel like they’re part of something important that gives them a sense of power and respect they might not otherwise be able to attain.

Internet bullies, unlike trolls, usually agree with the forum or site’s prevailing opinions. Their targets are usually:
–newbies
–members who appear to be hypersensitive or divulge too much personal information
–members whose opinions are different from the “accepted” opinions on that site.

Bullies, as members of an established online community, are less likely to name-call, use profanity, and make incendiary comments than trolls, but they are more likely to intimidate their targets by using snark, inside jokes, sarcasm, and subtle put downs intended to make the target uneasy without quite knowing why. If the target tries to call them out or ask them to stop, the bullies can easily proclaim innocence or tell the target they are just being paranoid or imagining things. It’s basically online gaslighting and it’s very crazymaking.

One of the most disturbing things bullies sometimes do is stalk their targets online–if one of the bullies has a little technical knowledge or is a mod or admin themselves (or is friends with a mod or admin), it’s easy enough to obtain the IP address of the target, and follow them everywhere they go on the web. They can then copy personal information the target has posted elsewhere and use it against them, either by reposting it on their site or mentioning the information in discussion. Sometimes trolls do this too, but since they’re more likely to be operating alone and not likely to be n contact with an admin who would have the IP address, it’s less likely they would cyberstalk someone unless they have hacking ability.

I hope this has cleared up a few things about the differences between bullies and trolls. They’re not exactly the same but both can create a great deal of havoc and misery for the people who have to deal with them.

Internet trolls are psychopaths

Posted on October 13, 2014 by luckyotter

There’s a very interesting website I found called SociopathWorld. Little if no distinction is made there between sociopaths (more likely to have APD and be impulsive) and psychopaths (NPD and more likely to plan out their actions). Most of the activity on the board is by and for the character-disordered, and includes blog posts by psychopaths and sociopaths, both prose and poetry. It’s interesting because it allows the rest of us to have a peek inside their heads. The experience of “getting inside their heads” seems very surreal to those of us who don’t think the way they do. It’s like a visit to another planet.

But even more interesting is the comments. One of the posts was by a non-psychopath talking about her psychopathic child. She was out of her mind with worry and grief over his actions.

Bad place to make a post like that. Almost all the responses either ignored her and kept on bantering about inconsequential things that were already being discussed, or if they addressed the issue she raised, were snarky “inside jokes” about the post or unsympathetic one-line replies.

That got me thinking about Internet trolls and bullies. Forums in particular are swarming with them (I’m not sure why trolls seem so attracted to forums over blogs), and that’s why moderators are needed, to weed out the worst posts and ban them from the forum.

I used to be very active on a political forum, but after several years the moderator quit and was never replaced, and when I went back recently, the forum was overrun by trolls and bullies. Most of the regular posters had left, and the few that stuck around were attacked left and right by the trolls. It’s sad what happened to that site, because at one time it was filled with intelligent and thoughtful people. Obviously most of them were run off a long time ago.

Some websites have a lot more bullies and trolls than others, and a lot of it has to do with the way the forum or site is moderated, and sometimes the subject matter has a lot to do with it too.

There are a few ways you can identify a troll or Internet bully, and I think almost all of these people are psychopaths:

— They rarely post anything original; mostly they just reply to or about someone else’s.
— Their posts are almost always very short.
— Their posts are snarky and filled with “jokes” meant to put a certain poster or their ideas down, or sometimes inside jokes when there is a swarm of bullies present who are on the same page against the non-troll.
— Trying to reason with them never works.
— If they are banned, they may come back under a different handle.
— Never PM or email them your concerns–they can use this against you and suddenly you may find your private message to them posted publicly elsewhere or being made fun of. This has happened to me.
— If you report them, be sure the moderator or admin is not on the side of the bullies; if they allow the presence of the trolls and bullies, that’s a red flag.
— Just like in real life, they will often gang up on a poster who appears to be vulnerable or have a differing opinion.
— They will take offense easily if you criticize them and usually fire back an insult at you.
— They are huge fans of humorous or snarky memes, gifs and photos, and will use these as a distraction away from the topic supposedly being discussed.
— They often go off topic and discuss irrelevant (and usually trivial) things among themselves.
— They gossip openly about past posters.
— They may respond to your comments with a “reaction gif” or meme instead of a real response.
— Some trolls come out of nowhere and make incendiary comments designed to upset the community or individual posters. These trolls are often banned or leave of their own accord.

All these tactics are meant to put the honest posters down, drive them away, or belittle them. Beware of any website where you see these tactics being used. Most of these people are psychopathic or narcissistic.

“Don’t feed the trolls” is excellent advice, if you must deal with them. Don’t respond to anything they say, or better yet, block them if you have that option.

Yes Virginia…evil people really do exist. Don’t think–run!

Posted on October 12, 2014 by luckyotter

Those of us in an active relationship with a psychopath usually either don’t see or choose to ignore how purely evil these characters are–and that they are set out to destroy the relationship, the victimized person, and even the children if there are any involved. Many times a victim feels like they can’t leave, especially if they don’t have financial resources (which is often the case when a person is enmeshed with a psychopath, who may have made any funds impossible to access), a supportive family to help them escape, or there are children involved.

Like most women (and men) enmeshed in a marriage or relationship with a psychopath, I waited far too long to leave my abuser. My son, although scapegoated by his father through most of his childhood, escaped relatively unscathed (although he has some anger and self esteem issues), but my daughter is another story. She was deeply damaged by her father’s manipulations and by having to play the role of his junior “flying monkey” and participate in his triangulation and gaslighting games when she was just a child and young teenager, not to mention being introduced to things a youngster should not have to deal with: drugs, alcohol, family violence (and even possible sexual abuse, though this has never been proven). She’s taken on a few of his narcissistic traits (she’s good at manipulation and isn’t always honest), although narcissism is to some extent genetic and her symptoms don’t seem to be too severe. She is also bipolar and suffers from C-PTSD, as I do.

For many years, I didn’t even see that he was an abuser. He wasn’t usually physically violent (except when drinking); his method of abuse was much more subtle–and more diabolical than that. I didn’t know what hit me and like most abused spouses, learned to blame myself and came to believe the discord was MY problem, because I “overreacted to everything” and was “crazy and unstable.” Having to spend time in a mental facility in the late 1990s was “proof” that I was the one with the mental problems–and in fact I did have serious mental problems, but they were brought on by my mind being played like a violin by a very evil man. He was a virtuoso crazymaker.

Other people saw how evil he was and couldn’t understand why I couldn’t see it too. I remember a friend of mine from work came over once with another friend when Michael was home, and while he was pleasant enough to them, neither of these friends ever wanted to come to my home again. When I asked Holly (one of the friends) why not, she said, “I don’t like your husband and neither does Teresa. He gave us the creeps, there’s just something not very nice about him.”

Parents of two of my daughter’s friends had met Michael, and would not allow their children to come to my home because of him. Oh, he was always on his best behavior with adult visitors, but one of the mothers told me, “he seems perfectly polite, but I just don’t feel comfortable around him and don’t want my daughter around him. I’m very sorry.”

I saw the evil in him on one occasion while we were still married–and what I saw scared the shit out of me. It was one night when he was very drunk, we had been fighting all night and ended it by having sex. The sex was rough and angry though, and suddenly I looked up and saw a totally expressionless face. There was no love there, just pure hatred. I could feel the hate emanating from him. But worse than that was his eyes. Normally a steely gray-blue, they had turned solid black, very similar to the solid black eyes demons in horror movies have. I know I wasn’t imagining this–what I was seeing was what he really was but kept hidden. No, not a demon, but something worse–a person with no self, a person who had sold his soul or never had one. There was nothing there, and nothingness is what evil actually is. That’s why malignant narcissists and psychopaths need to wear masks, to cover up what isn’t there.

Michael knew I had seen it, and knew I knew, because he immediately ended the intimacy, pulled on his clothes, and left the house, but not before giving me the most hateful sneer I had ever seen.

My father had talked to him one night during one of our many fights. Now my father has never been a particularly religious man and never believed in Satan or hell, so he didn’t say anything about this to me at the time, but years later, after Michael and I separated, he confessed that night he had heard Michael speaking in a low, gutteral, demonic voice. It scared him so much he decided to read M. Scott Peck’s book,”People of the Lie,” and after he was done he sent me the book. I was riveted by the book and also shocked and scared to death. That was the first time I began to realize that I had been dealing with a malignant narcissist who was dead set on destroying me and my children and almost succeeded.

People outside the relationship–casual friends, mothers of my children’s friends, and my father had all seen immediately what he was, but because I was enmeshed and had young children, I couldn’t see it–or refused to. It gives me chills to this day to think I spent 28 years in the presence of pure evil, but that’s what it was. I’m lucky to be alive today and even luckier that I didn’t completely lose my soul. My children are lucky too, although my poor daughter is the most deeply damaged by him and may never fully recover.

If you are in a relationship and others are wary or uncomfortable around them and can’t explain why, or you see the countenance of pure hatred and evil that I did (and also the solid black eyes), run away as fast as you can. If there are kids, take them with you. You may think you can’t, but even if you don’t have a supportive family or are financially unable to find another place to live, most towns and cities have services and even shelters for abused women and their children. The shelter I stayed at with my kids was very nice, and the counselors were wonderful (I went back though). If you are a man, it may be more difficult to find this kind of help, and you might have to dig a little deeper or even move to another area to find services, but they do exist. Take advantage of the government programs that still exist–food stamps, Medicaid for the kids, in some communities even housing vouchers. Churches and other charitable organizations have limited funds, but may be able to provide some food, help with bills, or other services. Seek counseling–many communities have free or low cost mental health services for abused parents and their children. Don’t worry that you have to move out of that big house you bought together, or that your kids will be without their father (or mother). This is life or death–don’t think about what you’ll be losing because at the end of the day, it won’t be much. Just get the hell out.