9 ways to tell if the victim blog you read is run by a narcissist.

hiding_mask

The Internet is a great thing for a lot of reasons, but for victims of narcissistic abuse, it’s probably the first time in our lives we ever had a voice, and would be listened to and believed.   There are hundreds and probably even thousands of blogs and websites for people who have been victims of narcissistic abuse, either by their families, or at the hands of an abusive spouse, boss, lover, or friend.

The Internet has given us a voice, so now we can not only read and comment on the stories of others who have suffered similar experiences, we can also start our own blogs where we can talk about our own abuse.   Before the Internet, who would listen to us, much less believe us?  More than likely, we’d be told, “oh, of course your mother/father loves you,” or “Oh, I’m sure she means well and doesn’t know how to express it,” or worse, “it’s all in your head,” or “you are too sensitive” or “you are too paranoid.  Or even, “you are crazy to think that.”

Before the Internet, if you actually went No Contact with an abusive person, especially if it was your own family,  most people would tell you you’d “regret it” because “your family is all you have.”   Religious people might have said to you that disconnecting from a parent or other close family member was a grave sin and broke the commandment that says, “honor thy mother and father.”  Well, my answer to that is this:  you are not honoring an abusive, narcissistic parent by enabling them or allowing them to continue to abuse and use you.  The kindest thing you can do for them is to stop enabling them, by going No Contact.  By doing so, you are removing yourself from the equation and making it impossible for them to target you anymore.   More than likely they will find a new person to target, or continue to talk trash about you behind your back, but you are making things harder for them. Think of it as “tough love.”  You can still love a narcissistic parent but refuse to allow them to victimize you anymore.

There are many great narcissistic abuse and ACON blogs, forums,  and discussion groups that have helped many people and for the most part they are a Godsend.   Without them, we’d all still be in the dark, thinking WE were the problem, and that if only we could please our abusers, everything would be fine.  We’d feel misunderstood and all alone. We would never have met each other or been able to tell our stories.

This blog started as an ACON blog, but because I’ve expanded into other topics and really didn’t have a lot more to say about my own abuse (because I got tired of dwelling in the past and prefer to look toward the future), I can’t really say this is specifically an ACON blog anymore, although I still include articles about narcissistic abuse from time to time and my old posts on it remain popular.

Unfortunately, there are more than a few blogs, forums, websites and Facebook groups meant for survivors of narcissistic abuse that are actually run by narcissists who are not aware they are narcissists and identify only as victims.   Un-self-aware narcissists are far more dangerous than those who have become self aware, because they refuse to–or can’t–see their own narcissism.   Instead they project it onto others, even where it doesn’t exist.

Please keep in mind, that there is a higher percentage (as much as 70%, according to some sources)  of people with Cluster B disorders like NPD or BPD among those who were raised by narcissistic parents.   Because there’s not a clear line between people who have been abused and those who are abusers (and in fact both may be present in the same person) it shouldn’t be very surprising that some victims are suffering from disorders a lot worse than just C-PTSD.

This is a problem because a person who is in an abusive relationship and considering going No Contact (or is newly No Contact) may think they’ve found a safe haven with empathetic fellow-sufferers who can be of  help to them, but they may well find themselves re-traumatized later on by the group, should they disagree with them in any way or say or do the “wrong” thing — and there isn’t much, if any, forgiveness from groups like these.  Once they devalue you, you are dead to them.     I was the target of such a group myself, and was so traumatized I almost took my blog down.

I’ve been in the narcissistic abuse community long enough now that I think I’ve got a pretty good handle on how to tell the safe ACON/narc-abuse blogs from the ones that are not so safe and actually could be dangerous.   So here is a list I devised of the ways you can tell if a narcissistic abuse blog is dangerous and should be avoided.   If any of the blogs or websites you read show these “red flags,” proceed at your own caution.   If you must read them, avoid commenting.

1.The site preaches hate and revenge.

If the site, blog or group you are involved in constantly bashes people with Cluster B disorders, calling them demons, monsters, incurable, having no souls, all going to Hell, or encourages its readers to “get back at” them or “out-narc” them, proceed very carefully.  While righteous anger is perfectly normal when you have been abused and can give you the motivation and courage to go No Contact, and even anger at narcissists in general is to be expected, if that is ALL the site seems to focus on, that’s a red flag.   Websites and blogs like these CAN be helpful when a person is going No Contact or you’re trying to leave an abuser, but once you are safely away from your abuser(s) and all that righteous rage is out of your system (for most people, it WILL burn itself out eventually), you should move onto sites that focus less on how horrible narcissists (or borderlines, or whatever) are, and more on how to heal yourself from C-PTSD and narcissistic abuse.   Also, it’s ALWAYS a bad idea to try to “get back at” or “out-narc” a narc.  It won’t solve anything, and you may find yourself more of a target than ever.   You’re not going to be any match for any malignant narcissist who’s on their game, and they usually are.

2. The owner(s) and followers of the site, group or blog seem stuck in a victim mentality.

Things just never seem to get any better for them.   There is no emotional growth to be seen when people are stuck in a victim mentality.  If you try to suggest they move on and work on themselves to feel happier or less like victims, they are very likely to attack YOU as being a narcissist who thinks you’re better than them.   This is an example of projection.  Sure, I totally get that all the positive thinking nazi’s out there can be irritating (and I HATE those toothpaste-smile cheerleaders who discourage you from being able to express your real feelings and tell you to smile when you don’t feel like smiling), but that doesn’t mean there’s something inherently wrong with being more positive or forward-thinking, or doing something to change your outlook on life to a happier one.  As victims, we were trained to expect the worst from people and probably have very little trust in others.

But our narcissists aren’t going to just magically appear on bended knee and tell us they’re sorry and un-do all the damage they did to us.  So you really only have two choices.   You can continue to wallow in misery and victimization until the day you die, or you can try to change things about yourself without expecting your abusers to make things up to you, because they won’t.  Changing yourself doesn’t mean you were at fault, but fair or not, it’s the only way to escape from the trap of being a lifelong victim.

3. They are never in therapy or getting treatment.

I’ve noticed how some people in these groups are never in therapy or practicing mindfulness skills, or doing anything that can make their lives easier or better.   I think that’s because they are really narcissists or borderlines who think of themselves as perfect and use their victim status as a kind of false self to get sympathy or attention, and woe be to those who ever suggest they need to change anything about themselves, or that perhaps a therapist could help them.   Are they afraid if they go to a therapist, they might find out something they don’t want to know?  Few malignant narcissists ever think they are the ones with a problem; it’s always everyone else.

4. The group bans, blocks, or insults people who are self aware borderlines or narcissists — and those who challenge the status quo. 

It doesn’t matter if they are in treatment or say they want to change.  They are automatically just lying or trying to get attention, just because they say they have an NPD or BPD diagnosis (or even just a self-diagnosis).  Because of course, people with these disorders donothing but lie and misrepresent themselves.   They CAN’T be self-aware or want to heal!   But I know otherwise.   I spent time on a forum with self aware NPDs and borderlines who were in therapy and actively trying to make changes and practice mindfulness and treat others better.  Why on earth would they want to do that, if it weren’t true?  What would motivate them to lie about it?

Some groups also ban, block or insult other victims who show any empathy for people who have these disorders or who question the bashing mentality.    One of the things I’ve learned on my own healing journey is that narcissistic abuse and narcissism is not a black and white issue.   Most people with cluster B disorders were also victims of abuse–and most abuse victims have narcissistic traits or “fleas” to one degree or another.

I’ve been called a narc-sympathizer, but I no longer take that as an insult.   Some of the victim sites don’t seem to recognize that narcissism is on a spectrum, and some narcissists are a lot worse than others.   C-PTSD is usually comorbid with these disorders too.   While yes, it’s true that there are malignant narcissists who “like” their disorder and would rather undergo root canal than ever darken a therapist’s office door, there are others, lower on the spectrum, who dislike the way they behave and want to learn how to be more authentic and develop empathy and real connections with others.    Of course, the narc abuse sites probably aren’t the best places for a Cluster B person to land, but I’m appalled at the way some of them get treated.

The same goes for those who show empathy for people with these disorders.   If you don’t drink the “all narcs are incurable and evil” Koolaid and dare to question the narc-hating status quo, prepare to be mobbed, banned, smeared, or called a narcissist or worse yourself.   The irony here is that your show of empathy probably means you are lower on the narcissism spectrum than they are.    Also, just because you hate narcissists doesn’t mean you can’t be one.

5. The site or group has a tight clique of hangers on and there is never any disagreement or healthy debate among them.

All they do is pat each other on the back and agree about how terrible it all was and how evil the narcs all were.   They never challenge each other to THINK  or to be open to out of the box viewpoints.   There also never seem to be any helpful suggestions intended to help each other heal.  Years later, they are still bemoaning how badly they got treated even years after going No Contact, but are doing absolutely nothing to improve things for themselves.  They are not very welcoming of newcomers, or of anyone who challenges them that they may be the cause of their own problems now that all the narcissists have been booted out of their lives.

6. They seem to see narcissism where it doesn’t exist.

Someone offers a helpful suggestion or minor criticism, and they call that person a troll or a narc.    They talk about isolating themselves from everyone, because “everyone is a narc” or “the world is full of narcs.”  I understand the lack of trust, but you can’t heal when you isolate yourself from the world and continue to insist it’s an evil, dangerous place full of people who will only abuse you.   You have to learn self empathy and from there, you can slowly learn to trust others and realize there really are good people in the world.   It’s sad they will probably never reach that point.

7. They are combative and aggressive toward those who disagree with them.

They may even go on a full-on smear campaign: gaslighting, telling vicious lies about you,  projecting things onto you, triangulating against you (complete with flying monkeys), sending nasty “anonymous” emails,and even threatening lawsuits (narcissists are notorious for being litigious), all while continuing to insist that they are just harmless “empaths” who actually show little to no empathy, even among themselves.  This happened to me, and it’s happened to others, so this is no exaggeration.

8. If the owner of the group is religious, they are dogmatic and intolerant of other religious points of view or those who disagree with their religious beliefs.

Understandably, many victims of narcissistic abuse turn to God or Christianity since the people in their lives have proven so untrustworthy and unloving.  This is not only understandable, it’s also desirable.   Having faith can keep us healthy and sane, and give us hope when all hope seems lost.   But beware of site owners who use their religion in abusive or narcissistic ways — to shame, belittle, or make themselves feel superior to others.  Use great caution around anyone who tells you your religion (or lack of religion) is wrong or evil, or that you are going to Hell for your beliefs.  This is religious abuse, and narcissists are notorious for it.

9.  You just feel uncomfortable or ill at ease.   

Listen to your intuition.  Even if you haven’t been attacked or targeted, if you just feel ill at ease of uncomfortable on that blog, forum or group, or hesitate to share your honest feelings and opinions there, chances are there’s a good reason you feel that way.  Don’t ignore your feelings — you spent too much time already dismissing your feelings as “crazy” or “wrong” due to the abuse you suffered, but your feelings are probably trying to tell you something important and you should listen.

intuition

The thing that makes me so sad is that failing to move on from the righteous anger we all feel at first, can turn a person into a narcissist, even if they weren’t one to begin with.    With nowhere left for all that rage to go, a person can become bitter and paranoid.  They begin to see narcissism in normal human behavior.   This is why moving on from the anger stage is so important (and for most people, it does burn itself out once the danger has passed).

Moving on doesn’t mean you have to tolerate narcissistic abuse or resume contact with toxic  people you have gone No Contact with. It doesn’t even necessarily mean you have to forgive your narcissists for what they did to you (and you surely don’t want to forget!)   But it does mean that at some point, you should be able to let go of the hatred and even begin to see abusive types as broken people who got that way because they were themselves abused (I don’t believe anyone consciously chooses to be a narcissist, in spite of what some people say).   Once you can recognize them as broken people instead of demons from the bowels of hell,  you can then begin to look inside yourself and see what you can do to change and make yourself less attractive to narcissists.   (Thinking this way also makes them seem a lot less dangerous, which in turn will make you feel like less of a victim).   Maybe you are codependent and unconsciously do things to attract that sort of person into your life.  That’s not victim-blaming — it’s just being willing to take responsibility for yourself and having enough insight to see the role you might have played.  None of us are perfect.   It wasn’t until I was able to stop thinking in an “us versus them” way and stop seeing myself as a “poor helpless victim” that I was able to see how my own narcissism and codependency negatively affected my life and my relationships.   Without this knowledge, I would never be able to heal.

All that being said, I truly don’t think these group and forum owners and bloggers are aware that their behavior is very Cluster B, that they may be on the N spectrum themselves, or even–God forbid!–have NPD.   I also don’t think they are being dishonest about the abuse they suffered.  They honestly believe they are only victims with PTSD or C-PTSD.  But their thinking about the issue of narcissism and narcissistic abuse is too black and white for them to be able to see their own narcissism, for to do so in their current state, would mean they would have to admit they were one of “those bad people” and the cognitive dissonance arising from that would be far too great for them to handle.   So they must continue to split: projecting onto and smearing those who refuse to drink their poison Kool-aid.

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About luckyotter

This blog is my journal. I just choose to share it with the world instead of keeping everything inside my head. I'm a recovering Borderline and have also struggled with Avoidant Personality Disorder. I also have Complex PTSD due to having been the victim of narcissistic abuse for most of my life. I write mostly about narcissism, because I was the child of a narcissistic mother, and then married to a sociopathic malignant narcissist for 20 years. But there's a silver lining too. In some ways they taught me about myself. This blog is about all that. Not all my articles will be about NPD, BPD or other personality disorders or mental conditions. I pretty much write about whatever's on my mind at the moment. So there's something for everyone here. Blogging about stuff is crack for my soul. It's self therapy, and hopefully my insights and observations may help others too.
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115 Responses to 9 ways to tell if the victim blog you read is run by a narcissist.

  1. Jim says:

    Yup.

    Un-self-aware narcissists, especially the coverts I think, have a knack for projection & turning these things on their head. It’s ego-syntonic for them to think they’re the good guy. I don’t think the overts really care about that. And they prosecute their case with such certainty & boldness, probably because on a conscious level they believe it’s true. They have to, they can’t afford to believe they’re tinged, which we all are to some degree.

    At least that’s how it appears to me.

    Liked by 3 people

    • luckyotter says:

      I think you are right.

      Like

      • Jim says:

        That’s reassuring, since I’m a family scapegoat, and in all likelihood I’m about to go no contact for good.

        My covert “communal” narcissistic mother is probably going to to level everything you just described at me to protect her image. What fun.

        Liked by 3 people

        • luckyotter says:

          You’re going No Contact with her? That’ great — congratulations. You’ll be surprised how much your life will change once she’s out of your life. 🙂

          Liked by 1 person

          • Jim says:

            Thank you for the encouragement!

            It was a big decision for me, especially considering the general principle to honor one’s parents, but I’m now satisfied I’ve gone way over and above and beyond in terms of umpteenth chances and final warnings, and there is zero sign of change, in fact she’s getting worse. And my father has betrayed me for the last time. Well, at least the last time while I’m in relationship with him.

            And you’re right- loving people doesn’t mean letting them get away with murder. Or letting them use you to wipe their feet.

            I thought I’d share something that my therapist (who has an MDiv) explained to me, that I found very freeing in regards to honoring your parents:

            Love SHOULD be unconditional (optimally- something to strive for). Relationship ought NEVER be unconditional.

            Even God operates that way- if you want forgiveness for something, you have to confess you did it, it was wrong and you have to have a basic intention to not keep right on doing that thing.

            And if you think about, the conditionality of relationship is just woven into the structure of reality. Relationships, by definition, take 2. You can do your part the best you can, but you can’t do the other person’s part, and you can’t convince them to do their part either.

            Co-dependency is a different thing than love. Love may “believe all things” (are possible), but I’m under no obligation to be naive and believe somebody is going to change.

            That’s why it says:

            “If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.” ~ Romans 12:18 The bible itself acknowledges this is not always possible.

            Plus, he explained, to honor your parents, you also have to honor yourself. Because if you did not, you would be being false, and they raised you to be truthful.

            So if you are false, you are dishonoring them by disregarding what they taught you (Don’t be false) and being a bad reflection on them. And to honor yourself, you have to be true to what you think is really going- that’s your best guess at “truth”, your best chance at having integrity, which is your best chance of honoring them. And you act accordingly, that’s integrity.

            Now if they tell you “No that’s not what’s happening, you never did understand”, you still have to go by what you think is the truth, what’s really going on. (Maybe a little gaslighting in this case)

            Otherwise you are going by what you think is false- which is wrong and you’re being deceitful- you’re deceiving yourself.

            Thanks for the encouragement that things will get better- I’ve certainly noticed that the longer I go without contact, the more at peace I am, then crazy making contact just sets me back into a flashback.

            There’s no winning, or more accurately, there’s no basic respect & decency & fairness & reciprocity with some people.

            Liked by 2 people

        • Jim, what is a “communal” narcissistic mother? And let me add that going no contact with (yet still loving) my mother meant my very survival.

          Liked by 3 people

          • luckyotter says:

            Yes I would like to know what that means too.

            Like

            • Jim says:

              Oh it’s something I read somewhere, can’t remember where…

              It’s a narcissist whose false self / image is that of a do-gooder / martyr.

              Like a teacher, a therapist, a pastor, a social worker, a volunteer. Some role that promotes the good of society.

              Generally covert; maybe exclusively covert?

              They get their narcissistic supply by identifying with a noble “communal” cause, and sucking people’s esteem from the goodness / nobility / grandiosity associated with that cause.

              Liked by 1 person

            • luckyotter says:

              Yes, I hear Mother Teresa (who I used to admire — I am a Catholic myself) was a perfect example of a covert narcissist who got supply through being a do-gooder. But her actual motives did nothing to help the poor and starving people she worked with. She was only trying to convert them to Catholicism, throwing them a few crumbs of food here and there, but otherwise doing nothing to lift them out of poverty. You can’t lift a man ouf of poverty by throwing him a fish; you have to teach him how to fish. But she wanted to keep them poor and dependent. She even talked about how “beautiful and noble” their poverty was, but never did anything to really help them. There’s nothing beautiful or noble about unnecessary suffering. I’m sorry if I stepped on any toes about Mother Teresa. I know she has a ton of fans.

              Liked by 2 people

            • Jim says:

              They seem like all they care about is the good of the community, but really they are motivated by wanting to look good.

              Liked by 2 people

            • luckyotter says:

              I agree. But I don’t think they actually are aware they are really trying to get supply and validation by looking like martyred saints. Anyone who is objective can see that’s what they are really doing though, unconsciously or not, and that they are anything but saints. They are completely blind to their own narcissism because their hatred makes them unable to face it in themselves.

              Liked by 2 people

            • That is interesting. My mother is an untreated “jealous schizophrenic” with the DSM traits of a narcissism and sociopathy.

              She does not have “communal” causes, but her grandiose delusion is she is a do gooder/martyr. It is interesting how these things overlap.

              She had the religious theme of working for God but being above God’s law in how she reasoned her innocence or to get revenge and manipulate “bad” people.

              In other words, all her do gooding is phony.

              I have never seen her express what I can be sure is true empathy for others, except maybe once a long time ago when she was medicated. The point seems to be that she “looks” like she’s doing good.

              I believe no matter what level of narcissism your parent might possess limited or no contact is necessary for grown children to gain. perspective. Toleration of any abusive behavior for the sake of maintaining “the family” is like a slow poison eating away at one’s soul and psyche.

              Liked by 1 person

            • Jim says:

              I agree. They most likely are not usually aware of what they’re doing. And when they start to get a clue, they probably do whatever is necessary to stomp that awareness out.

              And if you’re the person who threatens them, if they think you might tend towards their exposure, heaven help you.

              They are to be pitied, with a 10 foot pole.

              Liked by 2 people

            • luckyotter says:

              Narcissists hate the truth tellers. And I don’t deny my own narcissism. I can still be a truth teller though. I was the truth teller in my family and there was hell to pay for it. I don’t regret it though, because I learned so much and gained wisdom I never would have had if I’d gone along with being a mini-me and never questioned or criticized the things my family did to me.

              Liked by 1 person

          • Jim says:

            Wow.

            Thanks for the encouragement.

            Liked by 1 person

            • Jim, I heard an explanation of hell which made its eternity aspect palatable, as I do suffer from empathy for anyone who would go there.

              Hell is chosen by those who go there. No one is sent there by God. In that sense it is a mercy. God allows it. Hell is for those who see their true selves and do not want to look God in the face. It is literally the act of turning away from His outstretched arms. He will not force Himself on them.

              I am also hoping that in some ways (without compromising the truth of scripture) that these souls can still be given a second chance. I do not believe in reincarnation, but do know that God’s love is bigger than anyone’s hate could ever be, scripture says we all (saved and damned) have to do a certain amount of time on earth, and sometimes there are amazing paradoxes of truth of which none of us are aware.

              Liked by 2 people

          • Jim says:

            Yeah there’s a price to be paid for being a truth teller in a narcissistic family alright.

            And I know I have some narcissistic tendencies- if you didn’t get your healthy narcissistic needs satisfied when you were 2-3 years old, this has to be inevitable.

            But I, and you, and others, also recognize these tendencies and subsequent behaviors for what they are (eventually, most times I think), and we at least try to confess any wrong actions springing from them and take responsibility for them and try to make things right. As opposed to say, gaslighting. Although maybe I’ve done that too.

            Somehow we realized the way out is living in the light. That there is forgiveness for the slimeballs we feel we are, if we just confess the truth and trust that God isn’t surprised or disgusted. We must’ve been shown grace to realize this I think.

            It must be exhausting, troublesome, fearful and lonely to run from your true self and your unconscious for your entire life.

            Liked by 2 people

            • luckyotter says:

              I agree with this 100%. God will always forgive, if we repent with sincerity. I don’t believe in predestination or that anyone is “marked” or “seared.” Things may be different for those who die never realizing their wrongs or being able to repent or ask forgiveness, but I also don’t believe in an eternal Hell. I’m not sure what would happen to them, but I don’t think eternal punishment would ever be appropriate for a finite life, no matter how bad you were in it. Just my two cents.

              Liked by 1 person

            • luckyotter says:

              To add to these thoughts, I wanted to mention about a book I read called Cross Roads. It’s written by Wm. Paul Young, who also wrote “The Shack.” It’s about a man who has become a narcissist and has hurt many people during his life. I don’t want to spoil too much, but he becomes very ill and falls into a coma. During his coma, he meets Jesus and at first he is resistant, but slowly his “internal landscape” (literally a landscape in the story) begins to change as he begins to learn how to empathize and reclaim his vulnerability and ability to love. I can’t spoil anything else, but it’s a beautiful story that will make you cry and I highly recommend it.

              Liked by 1 person

            • Jim says:

              Not so sure I agree about the hell thing… I understand the crime of rejecting God as infinite because you’re sinning against an infinitely valuable person. Like whacking a federal judge in open court with a bat would more serious than if you whacked an ordinary citizen with a bat, because of his authority and the dignity of his office. You just can’t do that. Like “Sin is cosmic treason”… but that’s another story.

              The seared thing I think is when somebody deliberately makes up their mind for good in a final way that they want nothing to do with God or his forgiveness. Period. Probably impossible for us to know how that works.

              But I wanted to say, not only does God forgive us, he ACCEPTS us as we are, warts and all, and moreover He LIKES us.

              I remember the first time my therapist said that to me: “I think God likes you.” He was serious.

              I was like “What a nice thing to say to somebody.” Think about that- he LIKES you. To me that’s so much more tangible than “loves you” (which I have learned to interpret as “Bullshit!”)

              He wants to hang with you, because he LIKES you, the real you, even with the fake you on top. He thinks you’re cool. (Not like he looks up to you, but you know what I mean)

              Liked by 1 person

            • luckyotter says:

              I want God to like me. 🙂 I think He does.

              Like

            • Jim says:

              Cross roads. thanks!

              Liked by 1 person

            • luckyotter says:

              Read it and let me know what you think. I’ve been planning to write a review of it but haven’t got around to it yet.

              Like

            • Jim says:

              I am quite certain God likes you like that. 🙂

              Liked by 1 person

            • luckyotter says:

              That’s interesting. I never knew there was a name for this type of narcissist. I always just though of them as covert narcs who liked to do good deeds for supply. Thanks for the link.

              Liked by 1 person

            • Aura Gael says:

              Sure thing. I read the book Rethinking Narcissism by Malkin some time ago but forgot about the communal narcissist. I googled it when I saw the comments.

              Liked by 1 person

            • luckyotter says:

              I like Malkin. He knows all about narcissism but has a realist attitude about it.

              Liked by 1 person

            • Aura Gael says:

              Of course I forget the book. I need to get it out of the library again. I do remember thinking along the same lines as you about it though.

              I have been in such a fog so I don’t remember some of the books I have read. I hate that.

              I think I might be coming out of it though. Today was a good day, my head felt and still feels clear.
              Yay.

              Sorry, there I go, free associating again. There’s a reason why my head is getting clearer though but I’ll write about it in a post at some point. Don’t wanna speak too soon either.

              Liked by 1 person

            • luckyotter says:

              I’ve had those days when everything seems really foggy and confusing I hate that. I can understand you though.

              Liked by 1 person

            • Aura Gael says:

              Thanks. YEah, I’m usually coherent in conversation. It’s just that I forget the contents of books and movies…stuff like that. I’m pretty good at remembering conversations though, even in the foggy state.

              Liked by 1 person

  2. livingbythemoonlight says:

    This is a great post, a real life saver!

    Liked by 1 person

    • luckyotter says:

      Thank you. I know it might make some people mad, but those are the ones this is about. It’s too important an issue, especailly for newcomers in the narcissitic abuse community, and there has to be a way for them to tell the good resources from the bad ones. I learned the hard way. Not everyone should have to.

      Liked by 1 person

  3. TheOriginalPhoenix says:

    Hey thanks for sharing this message, it’s very important to spread awareness. I never gave it thought that narcissists could actually not know that they’re narcissists. Your blog is a real eye-opener 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

    • luckyotter says:

      Hell, most narcissists have no idea they are narcissists! Of course, many are, and those are the ones who are usually trying to practice mindfulness or improve the way they act (of course, there are the malignant ones who may know they are, but like being that way or think it’s some kind of advantage too).

      Liked by 1 person

  4. This was so well said I believe it to be a must share post. There are those survivors of parental narcissistic abuse that share their story to find their voice, help and warn others. Then there are others who do it to fuel their own ego and trip right into narcissistic behavior themselves.

    I cannot help think of the “religious right” who had suffered so much long term abuse at the hands of the liberal media, they voted for an abusive sociopathic bully in Donald Trump to fight “their” cause, as if the end justified the means.

    This is clearly a “let’s get revenge” attitude which unfortunately targets not the perpetrator but innocent bystanders. (Did all women have to be demeaned just to defeat Hillary Clinton?).

    In a sense, our very culture is breeding and justifying narcissistic personality disorder. People call everyone they don’t like a narcissist, while remaining uneducated about the DSM criteria. So many people reacted to my remarks about the election by saying “oh well if Trump’s a narcissist or uncompartmentalized sociopath than certainly Hillary is” simply because they didn’t agree with her policies.

    Finally, I think it is important to note that since there are various ways in which a narcissistic parent abuses each child, development of narcissistic tendencies is less likely in scapegoats, and more likely in golden children, such as Donald Trump’s sons. Let’s watch it happen.

    I am curious about his daughter who is obviously a victim (see his emotionally incestuous sexual remarks about her) but she seems completely unaware. According to psychiatric studies these unaware daughters are likely to develop borderline disorder with narcissistic and manipulative traits.

    I think your observations and warnings regarding the danger in not moving forward but harboring and feeding an angry attitude are excellent, as usual.

    Liked by 2 people

    • luckyotter says:

      I agree with you, that some of these blog owners “throw out the baby with the bathwater” so to speak. I can’t stand that self righteous, holier than thou attitude, whether it’s on these blogs, in politics, religion, or anything else.

      Like

  5. nowve666 says:

    Great blog! I’m going to link to it. I have also encountered this behavior and have written a couple of blogs about it. For example, A Psychopath’s Guide to Haters, https://kiasherosjourney.wordpress.com/2016/05/21/a-psychopaths-guide-to-haters/ in which I recount a conversation where “empaths” rejoice at the suicide of a narc. I expressed shock and someone named “BlueGal” said, “Its not like rejoicing the death of a human. Who in the hell cares about the death of an abuser?? CD much going in? If my ex psychopath died tomorrow I’d VOLUNTEER to DJ at the funeral!” The same site, “Dating a Sociopath,” has what Nikki (Positivagirl) calls a “Sin Bin.” This is the place designated for sociopaths to post. So far, there have been no takers. Perhaps it’s the word “sin” that puts us off. Another Forum http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html#Comments_form contains unusually toxic remarks. Someone actually recommends putting an elderly psychopathic parent in a “home” or on the street. As an elderly psychopath, I understandably found this horrendously offensive. So, yes, I know first hand, how hateful some of these sites can be. Maybe a list of the better sites for victims that actually help them grow would be helpful.

    Liked by 1 person

    • luckyotter says:

      Thank you! I appreciate you sharing this. I do have lists of blogs and other resources on my “resources” page, on both my blogs. (the one on Down the Rabbit Hole is different because it’s more FOR people with cluster B disorders, while the one here is more for victims. But it is time to update it and get rid of dead links and add new blogs, etc. that I’ve found helpful. I just haven’t got around to it yet.

      Like

      • Aura Gael says:

        I prefer the word ‘survivor’ to ‘victim.’

        Liked by 2 people

        • luckyotter says:

          Actually, I do too.

          Liked by 1 person

        • Aura Gael, I tend to prefer the word survivor to victim as well, but I think not all victims are “survivors”.

          I have thought a lot about this, and I think there should be a third word, indicating the passage from the realization one has been victimized, surviving it without perpetuating narcissism, then actually going on to flip exactly what one has been through, into something positive, and helping others.

          Victim, survivor and thriver?

          How about one can be all three, at the same time?

          Not one of these has to have a negative connotation, in my opinion, because thriving does invite more jealous “victimization” by abusive personalities. Happy, loving, forward moving thrivers are still victimized or sabotoged in some sense (talked about behind their backs, whatever) and this does not mean they have not “moved on”.

          Liked by 2 people

          • luckyotter says:

            Even though I use the term “victim” because it’s what I am used to, I agree with this three-pronged definition of someone who has left an abusive family/situation. “Victim” would seem to imply someone who still feels helpless and victimized even after leaving an abuser; “survivor” is someone who no longer feels so victimized and is learning to get by pretty well in life on their own without abusers; and “thriver” is exactly as you have defined it. For convenience’s sake, we are all “victims,” but some people act more victim-like than others. That may not be their fault, they may just not have the tools to move on to thriving or surviving yet.

            Like

    • Nowve666, can you explain to me about being an elderly psychopath? As I understand it, psychopathy can mean any mental disease (second definition) or psychosis, not necessarily anti social. My mother is sociopathic and targets me, but I do really believe the “real her” loves me deep down inside, if that makes any sense. I would never, ever rejoice at her death, or wish to get even with her, even though I maintain a no contact to protect myself and my own grown children.

      Also, if an elderly parent is untreated for psychopathy, they usually target familial care givers, so it is counterindicated for their victims (even if they still love their parents) to try to provide any needed long term home medical or nursing care.

      I really appreciate hearing your view. It is fascinating.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. Pingback: A Psychopaths’ Guide to Haters | CLUSTER B

  7. Pingback: Cluster B | CLUSTER B

  8. Aura Gael says:

    “Also, just because you hate narcissists doesn’t mean you can’t be one.”
    This made me chuckle a lil bit.

    I’ve gotten stuck in feeling hopeless and helpless, very much like a victim. It’s made it difficult to move out of the muck and so I haven’t. But I’ve taken some baby steps out of it.

    I still want to tell more of my story though. I have barely touched on it on my blog and it just feels necessary.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Lucky Otter, I feel compelled to write in defense of Mother Theresa. Those who called her a covert narcissist were mostly militant atheists who purposely misinterpreted her words when she said she did not work for the poor, but directly for God.

    If you have any doubt of this read her beautiful writings in context. You would discern she is the opposite of a narcissist, and had no concern as to what “others” thought of her. She stressed that she saw Christ Himself in the poorest of the poor, and the lowest of the low, regardless of rank, class or social position. Hers was a hidden apostolate, where her most heroic deeds were done on an individual basis without any public attention at all, the giving of her daily bread to feed others, or help them die with dignity and joy. This is why she has been canonized.

    Mother Teresa never sought out attention for what she did. When awarded the nobel peace prize in her acceptance speech, she stood up to those in this country (including the press) who harrassed the Catholic church for not purposely targeting third world countries for birth control, abortion and euthanasia. This is why some said “she never did anything to solve the problem.” They meant she knew she couldn’t solve the problem of poverty, by eradicating the poor. She insisted on loving the poor.

    Mother Theresa argued that the life of a child doomed to starve to death in India had more joy and meaning and value in their short life (she witnessed this)than the spoiled rich and indifferent of this country, who though wealthy and comfortable were spiritually starved. Even if Mother Theresa had not have the means or money to “save” all the poor people from dying, or correct the governmental ills that caused poverty in third world countries, she and her sisters would serve the poor and give them everything they had, to make their lives easier, regardless of what others thought.

    That is the opposite of a covert narcissist.

    Liked by 2 people

    • luckyotter says:

      I have to admit I’m not very educated about Mother Teresa, and what you say may be true, I can’t say if she’s a narcissist; I never met her. She may not have been at all, and just misunderstood. So I hear both sides of the story, and I really don’t know. I guess I have to do my own research and come to my own conclusions. Thank you for your thoughts.

      Like

      • I have studied Mother Teresa’s writings and speeches extensively. I believe you in particular would find them fascinating and beautifully uplifting. Her words are incredibly humble and definitely not self serving.

        She writes a lot about if people misinterpret you, think ill of you, say bad things about you, to do the right thing anyway. She did not seek self publication for anything she said. This was mostly advice to her sisters that has been preserved because of its wisdom.

        She also seemed to have a high degree of understanding about what narcissism is, particularly large scale societal narcissism, and the subsequent suffering of the victimized, unloved and unwanted. We are to help them, and love them, no matter what others think. Everyone is of the highest value in the eyes of God.

        People who have met her say that she had such humility and self-lessness there was an “odor of sanctity” about her. She was an anomaly to the many organizations, non governmental, governmental and religious agencies that claim to be helping the poor, but are top heavy, financially self profiting and promoting.

        She gave everything up, and she and her sisters BECAME the poor, to live among them and help them on an individual by individual basis.

        Liked by 2 people

    • Very well said, Little Shepherd Girl.

      There is a school of thought that has been around approximately forever that says that altruism does not actually exist, that everything everyone does is done ultimately for selfish reasons. People who seem to be saintly, because of their apparent unselfishness and generosity and willingness to sacrifice themselves for the good of others, are not saintly at all; they’re selfish just like everyone else. They do their good deeds because it makes them feel good, and/or to gain approval from others. By this logic, the more someone appears to be selfless and kind and generous and so on, the more selfish he or she really is — that person just enjoys being admired as the embodiment of sanctity.

      I have run into this sort of thinking many times, and I don’t buy it. It’s a theory that soothes the consciences of selfish, self-absorbed, and self-centered people who would otherwise be at least a little ashamed of themselves when confronted with the example of a truly unselfish person (such as Mother Teresa). If I can persuade myself that altruism doesn’t really exist, that Mother Teresa was just as selfish in her own way as I am in mine, I will feel less guilty about being selfish. Why would I strive for sanctity, if sanctity does not exist? If selfishness is a universal quality, if everyone is selfish, then selfishness can’t really be a bad thing, can it? Might as well embrace it.

      I understand the appeal of the theory, but the fact that it’s so useful to the very people who are trying to justify their own faults and shortcomings makes me more than a little suspicious. And it’s impossible to prove. Person A can assert that everyone is selfish and no one is an altruist; Person B can say no, there really are some people who are unselfish and altruistic… but neither one can prove (or disprove) either belief. I prefer to believe that altruism exists. Whether I’m right or wrong, it will at least inspire me to be better than I am. If I believed that we’re all just hopelessly selfish and there’s no cure, what would ever spur me on to become a better person?

      Liked by 1 person

      • luckyotter says:

        People can be so cynical. There’s a distrust of anything that is good and pure these days.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Bluebird, I really appreciate your remarks. I believe the critics who think of humble saints as “really selfish” cannot think outside the box or brain of their own narcissism, and narcissistic understanding of religion.

        It’s not so much they don’t believe in God, but they don’t believe Him to be good. The narcissistic atheists were not so much attacking Mother Theresa, but the concept of Goodness itself.

        They don’t want God, or “Love” because they associate this with pain (perhaps narcissistic parents gave them the wrong view of what love is) yet they are jealous of those that can feel real love and understand it, like empathic persons can. Narcs still desire what they’re missing, and this can turn into hate or a really dangerous pathology.

        I think of my sociopathic ex staring at me with flat effect, as if examining a bug, when I cried over the death of a beloved relative. When I asked why he was staring, he coldly and matter of factly stated that he was jealous that I was capable of loving someone so much.

        It’s a deep subject and I fear I will ramble on too long about it, but I believe it’s not wrong to desire Good for oneself. This is part of the longing for God as well. We ALL want “Good” for ourselves, whether we “believe” unselfish Good really exists, or not.

        But those who understand love, long for Good (God) first, for “the welfare of the Other” over themselves, and then they possess it, or possess: Him.

        It’s not like they strategize to love for self fulfillment or selfish motives, which is impossible, at least with “real” love. True love is born of sacrifice, not something we do “for the sake of the pleasure”.

        True joy is only a side effect. And our sorrows will be turned into joy.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Lisa says:

      @Little Shepherd Girl
      It was very interesting what you wrote about Mother Theresa. Thank you!

      Liked by 1 person

  10. Our life of poverty is as necessary as the work itself. Only in heaven will we see how much we owe to the poor for helping us to love God better because of them. Mother Teresa

    We think sometimes that poverty is only being hungry, naked and homeless. The poverty of being unwanted, unloved and uncared for is the greatest poverty. We must start in our own homes to remedy this kind of poverty. Mother Teresa

    There is always the danger that we may just do the work for the sake of the work. This is where the respect and the love and the devotion come in – that we do it to God, to Christ, and that’s why we try to do it as beautifully as possible. Mother Teresa

    And here’s where she didn’t care if she offended some who praised her work, proving she wasn’t looking for praise from mankind, or trying to be politically correct. In fact, she lectured America, upon receiving an award for “her work”.

    The greatest destroyer of peace is abortion because if a mother can kill her own child, what is left for me to kill you and you to kill me? There is nothing between. Mother Teresa

    Liked by 2 people

    • luckyotter says:

      Interesting. I’m sure you have made some good points here. As for the abortion issue, here is my problem with that. We live in a society that refuses to help its poor, mentally ill, and indigent women when they give birth. What few social safety nets we had, such as food stamps, are being stripped away and will continue to be so under the Trump administration. Women who are forced to have children when they can’t afford them, have no family support, have no way to support them, or they are not emotionally stable or are just too young, tend to abuse or neglect their children. It happens every day in this country. That’s why we have so much child abuse and children living in abject poverty, sometimes being left alone while their parents work. Many of them are starved and don’t have enough to eat. Many are beaten and abused or suffer horribly every day. Foster care isn’t much better. Kids are shunted around from home to home and never develop a sense of belonging or of being loved. These kids develop severe attachment disorders that often leads to antisocial behavior later on. I’m not a proponent of abortion and certainly don’t think it should be used as “emergency birth control” or just because one thinks another child is one too many, but if abortion is going to be banned (and I think there are certain cases where it should not be — such as rape and incest), then there needs to be a viable social safety net provided for the families of these babies so they can get a good start in life. Sure, abortion is a tragedy, but I think it’s far more tragic when I hear a story of a little child being beaten to death, starved, locked in a closet all day, or abandoned on the streets because their parents weren’t emotionally ready, are too mentally ill, or were too poor to support the child or give that child love. I think it’s far less evil to terminate a pregnancy during the first trimester (where the fetus is not yet sentient) than to subject a thinking, feeling child to unbelievable pain and torment for years, only to end in that child’s death or a wasted, tragic life of unrelenting suffering. Child abuse, neglect, and even murder are not rare occurrences in the wealthiest nation on the planet; these things happen EVERY DAY. Sure, there is adoption, but children of color and with disabilities have trouble being placed and wind up in “the system” going from foster home to foster home and developing severe attachment disorders or worse. Many of them are also sexually abused.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Regarding abortion there is no direct correlation between poverty and child abuse. This was Mother Teresa’s point. Children in starvation by third world countries are disproportionately happy compared to westerners, and their individual lives valued. They think of children as hope.

        It is my belief that abortion would end today if men were punished for not defending and supporting their unborn children, and the women they’ve impregnated.

        Convincing a woman her innocent child has to die to hide the double bind a man has placed her in, is the ultimate abuse of women and children. It is the woman who has to suffer with the after effects of abortion on her psyche. Violence against an innocent is always counterindicated in a woman’s psychology or as a means to deal with an abusive or poverty situation.

        This is precisely why women suffering complex PTSD from post Abortion Syndrome often go on to abuse their following live births, because they aren’t even allowed to correctly process or acknowledge the reality and the grief of losing the first aborted child. This is what happened in my mother’s case, why PAS triggered schizophrenia and her subsequent targeting of me. I’m the live birth that reminds her of her loss.

        It is abortion that ends the life of the child and is therefore the manipulation, life long trauma and further abuse against women in already vulnerable situations. There is lots of information on the psychology of abortion on Project Rachel websites. It’s fascinating, and very sad.

        The only sin in self defense and defense of the innocent is cowardice. Abortion is the ultimate child and woman abuse.

        Liked by 2 people

        • luckyotter says:

          I like the idea of a man being punished for refusing to support his unborn child. Of course, this has been tried and way too many men find ways to get out of having to pay child support and the burden falls on the mother and the government.

          Like

      • Also, there is no correlation between suffering and value of life, or any particular individual’s joy and gratitude in having a life. It is actually through my intense suffering that I (paradoxically) found joy.

        I am so happy someone other than me didn’t decide I should be killed before birth because afterwards I would be child abused. I am an intensely happy person, even though I have suffered intensely, and even if I wasn’t, my life has equal value to everyone else.

        My God, my own children would never have been born should I have been aborted.

        What causes sorrow and dissatisfaction with ones life is lack of empathy for oneself and others. Psychologically speaking, embracing grief heals and brings joy. That is why some people who have never had hardships and just seek entertainments and self fulfillment commit suicide.

        Also, it is a myth put out by the abortion industry that “early” abortions are painless to the victim. If you are old enough to be “aborted” your nervous system is remarkably developed. I remember the “early” ultrasound of my daughter. She was happily doing summersaults in the abdominal fluid.

        Even if those in utero were “unconscious” when killed (which they’re not; that’s unscientific) no one has a right to decide we are better off murdered (or our life is less valuable) when we are unaware, sleeping or anesthetized.

        Liked by 2 people

        • luckyotter says:

          How do you feel about the death penalty or war? Anyone who is truly pro-life would also oppose those things. I know that we are talking here about “innocent” life, but many death row inmates are wrongly charged and the truth comes out after it’s too late. Also, what about killing in war? Innocent women and children become war casualties (and that includes pregnant women).
          If someone can say they are against ALL these things (and I believe the Catholic church is against any kind of killing) , then they are truly pro-life. Also, if they believe in taking care of new mothers and the children that are born to them if they cannot care for their own children.
          However, I am against forcing any woman to give birth to a child who has been conceived during a rape or forced incest. A woman should be offered a choice when it comes to that. IMO.

          Like

      • One more point (thank you for this open discussion, you’re fantastic) it’s interesting to take note of the abortion industry’s tactics. Planned Parenthood was founded by a eugenicist who supported Adolf Hitler’s work to eliminate the “unwanted” from society.

        The myth that poor women are more likely to abuse their children is propaganda started by this eugenic movement. In this country Planned Parenthood was first called “The Birth Control League” because they knew where lower socioeconomic persons first accept contraception, they will eventually accept abortion, which is much more lucrative to them than selling condoms. They give the condoms away for free to get the abortion sales, not to prevent abortions.

        Also, when someone has one abortion, they are more likely to have another, their self worth and mental health becoming more and more compromised.

        Planned Parenthood clinics are still disproportionately in lower socioeconomic areas and particularly where there are a disproportionate amount of African Americans. These were the “sub cultures” targeted.

        Wherever possible, pro life entities have established Birthright’s right next to abortion clinics across the country. If an aborting woman goes first into one of these she will get complete financial and personal assistance. They even have established safe houses. It is another outrageous popular myth that no one is willing to assist these women, immediately and long term, but these women are being being purposely brainwashed with the lie that there is no one.

        This has on them the psychological effects of a double bind. Their reaction to abort an innocent is like a desperate child choosing to emulate the narcissism of an abusive parent to “survive” themselves.

        As far as Trump yes, he is a life long supporter and fan of Planned Parenthood. He, like all with the eugenics mentality, is only pro life for unborn children who have potential to become “superstars”. They know full well that poor or sick people are NOT disproportionately unhappy, but they think they are SUPERIOR to the poor.

        When Trump inferred he would abort any child without potential to become a “superstar”, and started bashing Mexican illegal immigrants and Muslims as genetically more prone to criminality, (like the Jews once were dehumanized) I thought my God, America’s on the way to electing another Adolf Hitler.

        Liked by 2 people

        • luckyotter says:

          Interesting. I’ve heard of Birthright. Are there really enough of those around to serve all the poor women though?
          I didn’t know about the eugenics program although I’m more than aware that Trump is a racist and would love nothing more than to “make America White again” and have all people of color deported or even killed.

          Like

          • Yes, about Birthright, Lucky Otter. And most of their help goes unknown, unused or ignored. They are frequently run and headed by women who have had and now view abortion as a means of abuse against women. They share contacts with all kinds of sources – safe houses, financing, educational, personal, medical, spiritual. Whoever comes in, no matter who they are, is referred or given whatever they need.

            Often, the abortion clinic next to these centers that give aid file all kinds of false complaints and strategize to have the help centers removed.

            One time I was helping hand out information near an abortion clinic and some volunteers at the Birthright noticed a woman passing by, not to get an abortion, but she seemed distressed. She had a crying infant in her arms and had come to them. She explained to the Birthright staff she didn’t have a car to go buy infant formula. Knowing very well that the mother could have been lying or a drug addict, the volunteers responded with prompt kindness regardless. They actually drove in their own car, and used their own money to purchase and help the mother stock up on infant formula for the child, and I remember it had to be a very special kind because the infant was allergic. Another time a couple volunteered to hide out a woman and her children from an abusive partner in their own home. Many offered to finance and adopt the babies of the women going into the clinics to abort, no questions asked.

            One time we witnessed an agressive, foul mouthed, threatening young man abusively dragging his trembling girlfriend into the abortion clinic, not allowing the frightened young girl to even talk to us, or accept any medical information. Someone among us asked her if she wanted us to call the police, but she was too frightened to answer, and the abortion clinic staff were merging in on her, to bring her inside. She emerged several hours later from the clinic, almost collapsing on the ground, her abuser getting into the car in front of her. We could not even get to her to give her any emergency medical contact numbers. Complications from legal abortion are extremely common, not to mention counterindicated psychologically particularly if you are depressed, and most of these women are in abusive relationships to begin with.

            This is why I get so mad when I hear the lie that pro life people only care before the baby is born.

            Liked by 1 person

  11. Im not sure about all the God stuff in here. I believe there is a force of truth in the universe and it wants us to be who we really are deep inside, but unfortunately when we are raised we meet all kinds of conditions and conditioning in society. Growing up into a spiritually mature adult is about getting underneath this to find out who you really are. The narc parent wants you to be their projection, part of your true self is exiled as they cant bear to face that side of themselves. We become narcissistic ourselves when we have to continue this lie of exiling the wholeness of who we are and feel jealous or try to undermine those who are trying to live free and true. If we have deep wounds from childhood we have to own them. This can be so painful. This is what the narcissist will not do but the narcissistically wounded amongst us (and that includes me) do the work to own our wounds and not project or hide from them. This requires truthfulness and vulnerability.

    Liked by 2 people

  12. Great read, but I feel like I should point out that this post is hypocritical. The reason I say this is because none of the traits that are presented are part of the clinical definition, or a character trait of, narcissistic tendencies, let alone NPD. To assign a label to a group as being run by a narcissist with no psychological or medical evidence to support said claim is wholly irresponsible and actually reflects, in my opinion, more poorly upon you. I can understand not liking the mob mentality you may have experienced in such groups, but that has nothing to do with the psyche, disordered or not, of the individual(s) in charge of the group. I would just say it’s a group you don’t like and leave it there – otherwise, you’re kind of doing the exact thing you’re criticizing. Still love for you and I appreciate your post.

    Liked by 1 person

    • luckyotter says:

      Fair enough. As you pointed out I am not qualified to diagnose anyone or any group, but these are things I have observed and are my opinions. They are just observations though, and others may have different experiences. Not all, or even most, of these groups are that way. I think they are in the minority, fortunately.

      Liked by 1 person

      • No, the criticism of your post was not fair.

        You may not have the authority to officially diagnose, but you certainly have the abilities to discern if someone (through their blog) publicly demonstrates all the DSM criteria for narcissism.

        Another myth: people have to have a medical degree to brilliantly correlate behaviors witnessed with diagnostic criteria for narcissism.

        Psychiatry professors have been using Trump’s public behavior and own words to use him as the poster child of uncompartmentalized sociopathy for years, despite the fact that we know of no doctor that’s “diagnosed” him.

        Your post was an excellent scholarly analysis of blogging narcissism and the warning signs you gave as examples correlate directly with the DSM criteria.

        Liked by 1 person

        • As a matter of fact it is a typical narcissistic-like abuse tactic to call out someone else, simply for critically thinking and “noticing” or warning others, that someone’s public behavior or words demonstrate all the DSM traits for narcissism.

          I have found “you are not a doctor” is said in defense and quite often by those who suddenly realize their pathology is exposed and apparent.

          Notice after your words, which you backed up with examples and evidence, were called “hypocritical” (without any evidence) your personal critic than went on to claim “love” for you.

          Mmmmm.

          Liked by 2 people

          • luckyotter says:

            Thank you. I didn’t feel comfortable with that comment at all, and it shot up all kinds of red flags but I decided to go ahead and approve it and reply to it anyway. I didn’t really have a lot to say in reply. Thanks for coming to my defense. 🙂

            Like

            • The very fact that you publish criticism (no matter how unjust) of your blog is evidence to me that you are NOT a narcissist and a fair minded, non hypocritical person. Well done.

              I have actually done a similar thing on my blog by simply publishing the word for word statements of people who threaten or harass me. They are self incriminate those who sent me the messages.

              Publication of such statements on a blog about narcissistic abuse alerts others of the tactics used by manipulative persons, and it gives your readers a chance to see the similarities in their own situations, or learn to recognize verbal abuse and intellectual dishonesty from a safe non emotional distance.

              I think it’s amazing how the critic accused you of publishing analysis without any evidence or examples ( which you didn’t do) then called you hypocritical, without any evidence , example, or support of that statement.

              Don’t these types tend to accuse exactly what they are guilty of, as if accusing you of it first makes you the guilty party, not them? I think unsupported criticism is just designed to put people on the defensive.

              Perhaps a good response is not to reply in defense, but with questions for them. (“Why do you think you didn’t correlate my examples with the diagnostic criteria for Cluster B disorders when other readers did? Could you give some evidence of anything I’ve said or done to lend credibility to your personal judgement that I am a hypocritical person? Have we ever met?”)

              When the critic threw in a love bomb as if that would ease the unjust criticism right through it reminded me so much of my mother. “Judy means well and I love her so much, I’m sure she doesn’t MEAN to mistreat me”.

              Do people really think those verbal snares will fly here?

              Liked by 1 person

            • luckyotter says:

              That “love bombing” in that comment was as transparent and flimsy as saran wrap. LOL

              Like

        • luckyotter says:

          99% of the people on the internet writing about narcissism and “diagnosing” others are not mental health professionals, so I don’t see why mine was called out, unless it hit some kind of “nerve” with this person. Thanks for sticking up for me.

          Like

    • Lisa says:

      @manillascissor
      “Great read, but I feel like I should point out that this post is hypocritical….”
      “… wholly irresponsible and actually reflects, in my opinion, more poorly upon you.”
      “Still love for you…”

      Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, you do not need to use the same tactics as an abuser. You can do it directly without being hypocritical, without using snide side comments and disguised putdowns if you want your opinion to be taken seriously.

      Liked by 1 person

  13. Lisa says:

    Excellent post, LuckyOtter! Glad you brought up this subject. Being able to spot “victim narcissists” is very important. Thank you!
    Hope I will be able to write about my experience with a victim narcissist member in an online group moderated by a qualified therapist (!) when I have more time. I felt as if I was with my dysfunctional family again. Same dynamics!

    Liked by 1 person

  14. draughtrider says:

    Interesting post. The realisation of these people came to me over the weekend when I became aware of how they weave themselves into the social fabric and like a constrictor keep others out, particularly people they have in the past targeted.

    The really scary thing is, when so many of those around them have no idea whats actually going on … right under their noses … and they become ignorantly complicit …

    Liked by 2 people

  15. Lyra Steyl says:

    Thank you for an excellent post. I found it a very interesting and balanced read, a much needed warning.

    Liked by 1 person

  16. Pingback: Beware the ‘victim’, they may not be what they seem | The Shadow's Turn

  17. dray0308 says:

    Reblogged this on Dream Big, Dream Often and commented:
    This is Lucky Otter’s Haven!!

    Liked by 1 person

  18. PLH says:

    Wow! This is fantastic. Exactly what I needed to find today!

    Liked by 1 person

  19. mahbuttitches says:

    Reblogged this on MahButtItches and commented:
    Very thought provoking and insightful!

    Liked by 1 person

  20. Just Me says:

    Wow. This was referred to me by a new blogging buddy of mine on her blog.

    I’m blown away by your thorough analysis. Thank you for this eye-opening, educational, completely insightful post. It’s rare I read the article AND the comments, but this got my attention from top to bottom.

    I was deeply touched by your analysis of the group mentality of some of the sites that tend to be exclusionary and cliquish in their rejection of anyone who is trying to seek relief, support, camaraderie, and people to share with, but whom might challenge the status quo or provide any kind of pushback or minor disagreement.

    This happened to my cousin at a forum during the past 5 years or so. She was in her initial phase of NC and trying to heal when she joined this one very unhealthy blogging community. She made the mistake of challenging a couple things, mildly, but man, oh man, did she pay. One by one the people in this group began to shun her and several of them blasted her in vicious posts and comments. She was badgered and bullied on several occasions, but she stayed because she thought SHE was the problem!

    The same people tearing her down would write these oh so uplifting, mother theresa type of flowery posts, etc, so she believed they all had their stuff together. And they let her believe that, too. I kept telling her it was jealousy whenever it was bash my cousin day (I didn’t know any better), but reading this today, I realize it was something far different…and slightly more dangerous than mere jealousy.

    After months, I finally convinced her to leave, but wow, you totally hit that nail when you talked about this. Thank you very much for your insightful informative post.

    Liked by 2 people

    • luckyotter says:

      Thank you, I’m glad you found this so informative and helpful. It’s an issue that isn’t talked about enough. And I’m not just referring to the narcissistic abuse community either. It seems to be an internet phenomenon, this mob mentality thing. Maybe because people feel bolder behind their keyboards when you can’t see their face, idk. I remember some years ago on a political forum, I had ideas that differed from the vast majority, and wound up attacked by trolls. Eventually I left. My views weren’t even that weird or revolutionary! I was just more left wing than the rest, I guess. It wasn’t a conservative or Republican forum, but it seemed that most of the people there were and most of them were quite vicious when I didn’t agree with them. I’m sorry that happened to your cousin, too. I think it happens a lot online, and people think they can get aggressive because they are “anonymous” and you don’t really know who they are, nor do they really know who you are. The Internet is great, but it’s given rise to this new form of trolling and bullying. You can’t be too careful. It’s hard to know who you can trust when you’re online.

      Liked by 1 person

  21. Daria Kill says:

    That is a very accurate summary.

    Liked by 1 person

  22. Such a great post 👍

    Liked by 1 person

  23. Reblogged this on Blog of a Mad Black Woman and commented:
    Please comment on original post.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. Wow. This was a great post. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  25. I actually really love what you have to say here and the fact that you acknowledged each phase a victim might go through. I myself am 3 months free from my narc but have a child with him. So no-contact is definitely a no go. I would love to know what you have to say about the grey rock method which I’ve tried for the time we’ve been apart and it works wonders. I’m slowly getting out of the anger phase especially since custody has been established and the threats to take of with our son is over and done with. It’s been a really long 2 year journey. I’m extremely guilty of the name-calling (not to him but in private or just now on my blog lol). But for the time being it has really helped settled my harbored resentment. Looking foreward to healing! I think I’m ready for it!!!

    Liked by 1 person

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