Because several of you asked…

wolf_sheepsclothing

A few of you asked me to go into more detail about Molly’s ex Paul and exactly what made me realize he was a malignant psychopathic narcissist. So I am doing that now.

Paul was smoking crack, which is easy to hide because it doesn’t smell that much and a person can still act sort of normal when high on crack. He seemed to have a hair-trigger temper though, which is common in both crackheads (I’ve known a few and they’re all quick to rage) and narcs.

So here we have a crackhead narc, a ticking time bomb. My daughter knew about the crack, but because he continued to give such a nice, mature, intelligent impression (the guy was very intelligent) no one believed her (because she’s had a history of drug use) ; the weird behavior she displayed at his house on Christmas wasn’t her on drugs (which he said it was). Her behavior was because she was scared and depressed and having panic attacks (another thing she suffers from) because of all the mental and borderline physical abuse (he would threaten but didn’t actually hit her) she was undergoing while she lived with him.

I felt so horrible when I realized I’d been turned into a flying monkey against my own kid, who was definitely the victim.
Maybe it was some kind of weird karma, because when she was younger those roles were reversed: she’d been used by my ex as a junior flying monkey against me.
The talk we had cleared everything up.

When I look back at things now, I realize there was something a little “off” about Paul that I couldn’t put my finger on. He seemed perfect: older (38 and mature), good job as a med tech, nice home in a nice neighborhood, good looking, and very nice and friendly. What’s a mom not to love? He told me he loved my daughter — this was 3 weeks after they met. He was moving so fast. She wasn’t comfortable with moving that fast but played along partly because she didn’t want to disappoint me (Hell, I wanted to date him myself!)

But there were so many red flags we both chose to ignore. And I say chose because I did see them.

I did think it was odd that he was 16 years older than her (she’ll be 22 in April) but rationalized that at least it wasn’t some 22 or 23 year old jobless basement dweller playing video games and smoking pot all day (like a couple of her exes were like). I thought he was too old, but thought that might be a good thing.

It would have been fine had he not been a predator. He was actually telling her he wanted her to have his baby! A month after they met. He has two kids right now, ages 9 and 2, he never sees and isn’t allowed to see. He also came to North Carolina suddenly, with no plan. He said some people in Florida (where he moved from) were stalking him. Another red flag. And all he talks about is his son all the time but his baby daughter–it’s as if she doesn’t exist to him. (They had two different mothers). He is apparently not on good terms with either of them.

Also, when he took my daughter down to Florida in November, they stayed two days and made the rounds visiting all HIS friends and family (and making “secret” trips where my daughter would be told to stay in the car and wait–VERY suspicious!) , but when my daughter asked to go see her brother (who was about 5 miles away from where they were staying), the psychopath told my daughter he didn’t have enough gas. He knew full well how much they had been looking forward to seeing each other. She hasn’t seen her brother since last March.

I think Molly’s whole experience of living with a psychopathic narc was meant to teach her something and wake her up from her own descent into narcissism. Before she met him she was very narcissistic and abusing drugs. She was making terrible choices.

Since this experience(which we talked about in the conversation I posted about), she put two and two together. She knows all about narcissism and psychopathy because I talk to her about it a lot, and she herself identified him as a narcissist without my having to tell her. She says she realized she was becoming a narcissist herself because now she’ s been the victim of one and sees how immoral her behavior had been.

I hate to say this, but Molly’s 30 days in jail probably helped too. She had time to read a lot (something she usually won’t choose to do on her own) and think things over. She realized how “bad” she was, and wants to change.

So I think she may be borderline, but may also be at that point I was back in 1985 when my friend’s calling me out and telling me she couldn’t be my friend anymore because of my narcissistic behavior, woke me up and made me stop myself before I slid down the rabbit hole into true narcissism. That ex-friend was actually being the best friend I could have had at that moment, even though I was devastated over her rejection of me. I believe she saved me from developing NPD.

Some things happen because they’re a wake up call from God. Perhaps his purpose was to educate her about herself in a unusual and painful way. It probably took something that dire to save her from herself.

Here are all the red flags we chose to ignore:

1. They met in a mental health facility-a 5 day drug rehab program. Probably not the ideal way to meet a potential suitor. (Both were also diagnosed with PTSD, depression and anxiety–that doesn’t mean he’s not a narc–they often have comorbid mental disorders and addictions).

2. He came to this state without a plan. He said he was escaping people who stalked him in Florida and just kept driving until he found this area and decided this was where he wanted to live. He has no family or friends here. He paid for his house in cash within days of arriving.

3. Taking her to Florida and not allowing her to see her brother

4. Making her wait in the car while he visited people he was “doing business” with.

5. He seemed very easily upset or angered by things, but it took a while for this to show.

6. He seemed a little too perfect.

7. Moving too fast in their relationship, even talking about marriage and children.

8. He wanted my daughter to move in with him, then complained about all the money she was costing him.

9. Told me horrible things about my daughter and got me to believe them.

10. He was insanely jealous and questioned her whenever she spoke to a male friend on Facebook.

11. He has two children by two different women–neither is on good terms with him and he is not allowed to see his son or daughter.

12. Kept talking about the money Molly was going to get from her car accident settlement–and then got me to let him “hold onto” it (I trusted him more than her); the next day the money was gone.

13. Making me jump through hoops to get my cat back. Instead of just dropping her off at my house or letting me come pick her up, he released her into the woods; shelter personnel found her and I had to pay $85 to get her back.

14. He was a pathological liar.

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23 thoughts on “Because several of you asked…

  1. What a powerful read. I think the biggest red flags for me were the fact he wouldn’t let her see her brother, that should have been his top priority (a man in love will do anything and everything to gift his sweetheart), and attempting to destroy the cat(even if she left him, he would not attempt to destroy her pet). My ex-husband destroyed many of my things when I left him but he kept my pets safe. He was a narc too, so that was beyond normal revenge. Paul was performing a very sick action. These were not actions of a man in love. And the fact that he was complaining that she was costing him money. Yuck, my brain hurts with these. I know I have old fashioned values, and nowadays men want women to share in the costs. One time a man I was dating, gave me shit because I was always expecting him to pay for our dates. He thought he was “educating” me. I couldn’t go on any other dates with him, my body was going “ick”.

    I think women just need one red flag to go on. That way they don’t get sucked in, because if we let one red flag go, then we dull our senses to the others. I’m happy you and your daughter were able to take something good out of this horrible event in your lives.

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    • The only problem with going by one red flag, is that all of us, sometimes, show red flags. We can all be narcissists at times, and none of us are free from sin or manipulating others for our own gain. So one red flag does not necessarily mean the person is a narcissist.
      I think we victims are hypervigiliant and quick to label any person who does something we dislike a narcissist. We have to be careful not to mislabel. Look for pattersn or a whole cluster of red flags. In Paul’s case, there were quite a few.

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    • The last guy I was involved with (a narc)…when we broke up one of the text messages I got (supposedly from the woman he broke up with me for) was a complaint that he’d spent too much money on me.

      This coming from a guy who insisted on paying most of the time. However there were times that we did go dutch too and still other times I paid for maybe breakfast or something just because I wanted to spend some time with him.

      When it was over I was just a lazy loser who he paid for, for much too long.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Narcs either complain about how they’re spending too much money on you, or they’ll spending all YOUR money. Sometimes they do both! My ex freeloaded off me for 7 years but when he won $500 in the lottery and I asked him if I could use part of it to pay a bill, all he did was complain for weeks about it, about how GENEROUS he was. LOL

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  2. And asking her to wait in the car is beyond an ick moment for me. He can conduct his business on his own time, not mine. Life is too precious to spend it waiting in a car.

    After my second abusive marriage, I started to date very frequently, After reading this, wow, I realize all the bullets I have dodged, even being unawakened and unaware. It sends a powerful message.

    Remember ladies, no waiting in cars, your needs will be his top priority, if you want to see a family member he will go completely out of his way for it. My husband did it for me. He will never harm your pets or things, even if angry at you. He will never complain that you are costing him, I wish I could cover all the rest of the red flags. Oh, and he will not have enemies, he will have fans.

    I know I seem hard on the men, and have big expectations of the men. This is not sexist, I also have high expectations of women, but that is another subject, not needed here.

    Liked by 1 person

    • These were good red flags for us to learn about and they apply to anyone. Anyone who won’t let you see your own brother and makes you wait in a car while suspicious business is going on are two things that should make you run like hell. We did a lot of rationalizing and excuse making about him because he seemed so perfect on the surface.

      In my opinion (and from my own experience) female MNs are even more deadly than male ones. They just seem meaner to me. I know we talk mostly about men here because we’re mostly female, but there are plenty of abused men dealing with female narcs and psychopaths.

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  3. WTF! on the cat. I hadn’t read anything about that up to this point. (Not sure if you’d written about it before.) What a you know what. But I’m glad you were able to get your kitty back.

    As I’d written in another comment responding to you, I do think the age difference is a red flag. A much younger woman is easier prey given the vulnerability, especially if she’s coming out of a rehab or other life difficulty.

    There are a lot of parallels I see involving your daughter’s experiences and my own when I was younger. I’m closer to your age (49) but when I read the stuff you write about her, I think back on my own circumstances, experiences and even the emotions and confusion back then.

    I did not go through rehab but was hospitalized for depression twice. For a long time I have been convinced I was borderline and had a hell of a time getting a therapist to believe me and diagnose me. However the term and traits didn’t even occur to me until I was in my 30s when I read a book suggested to me by a therapist I was seeing at the time. I don’t remember the name of it now though.

    When I was much younger (teen years) I was involved with a couple older men so I have a place of reference to form the opinion about men pursuing much younger women being an automatic red flag all by itself. And I’ve known other girls/women who were also pursued by older dudes.

    One of the biggest differences with your daughter (and of course there are others) is that you (her mom) are awake and aware. You are also self reflective and so obviously love and care about your daughter.

    I didn’t have that. So I continued to get involved with narcissistic guys and my true wake up call didn’t come until 2012. So although I don’t know your daughter, what you’ve been writing about you, her and the circumstances, has effected me deeply and I am seriously routing for your daughter. I am so happy for you both and to know that she has a really good chance given the mother she has.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Safirefalcon, I’m touched by your last sentence, awww. I hope that’s true. I actually wasn’t the best mother when she was younger because I was so codependent and was drinking and smoking pot to cope with my psychopathic ex. I was also unfaithful (as was he). I felt so guilty not being there for my kids more, but we were all victims of his abuse. I try to make up for that now, sometimes it comes off as a bit of overprotectiveness, but they both know how much I love them, and my daughter knows now that she was told a bunch of lies about me from her father (that I didn’t really love her, etc.) I explained to her what triangulation was and what a flying monkey was and she recognized that was what he was doing to her. Attempting to turn a child against a parent that way is just as cruel as scapegoating a child, maybe more so.

      About the cat–yes, I actually had talked about it before, but I can’t find the reference right now. He professed to like the cat, but of course as soon as my daughter was out of the picture, he dumped the cat and not only that, made it difficult and expensive for me to get her back. Even the shelter personnel couldn’t believe someone would do that to an innocent kitty (and Babycat isn’t a cat who would survive on her own). She’s back at home now, and doing just fine. 🙂

      I was never warned against MNs and psychopathic lovers either (well, hell my mother was one herself) and I was also preyed on by older guys when I was young. Usually all they wanted was sex, but sometimes there was the love bombing followed by cruel game playing too. Had to learn the hard way. Of course, there wasn’t as much knowledge about these creeps yet either, very little to nothing was written about them and there was no Internet. But women were starting to recognize that “abuse” wasn’t always just physical, so there was that….

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  4. I didn’t think much of the age thing as being a red flag. But I remembered something this afternoon. Long ago I was on a dating site and my daughter opened her own profile and she was approaching the men I was talking to. I didn’t know she was doing this, and she said she was doing this as a joke. However, she finally fessed up to me, and showed me some of their responses. They told her she was too young. Told her they were flattered but no thank you. She was 18, but posted as a 20 year old.

    My point is that none of the men my age were interested. I know that they were slightly older than Paul, but I find that interesting. One guy told me about the “youngen” that contacted him. He told me he wouldn’t even know what to say to a 20 year old. What’s there for them to even communicate about.

    So yeah, that is definitely a red flag then.

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    • Joan, oh wow. That’s really something! I’m glad some of those guys had a sense of right and wrong and told her she was too young. I think most decent guys over a certain age will avoid girls and women in their late teens/early 20s. Sexual predators will be after them, but an older guy really has no business dating someone half his age. What are they going to really have in common anyway? Not much.
      I didn’t take the age thing as a red flag at first either, although I did raise my eyebrows a little when she told me he was born in 1976 (she was born in 1993) . I gave it a wait and see approach. I met him and liked him. She can act mature for her age (at other times, very immature). Turned out he was just a very cunning predator.

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  5. I wonder if there is a book out there to read to avoid red flags in dating. I am glad your daughters time with Paul was short. Paul does sound very toxic. How did he buy a whole house with cash ? one thing if they leave a whole slew of ignored children and ex wife behind them, then watch out. Maybe your daughter should draw up a list, and given her age, it may be a better decision for her not to date anyone who has ever been divorced just as a safety measure or anyone who has had children. So someone can be a crackhead and still make it to work? You always see them on the streets on the show Intervention. Make sure she picks someone who is financially viable while watching for other bad things. That may be how Paul fooled her where she thought finally I found a boyfriend who isn’t a bum, but he really still was.

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    • There are so many books about toxic relationships and narcissism now, I’m sure there’s books that list the red flags.
      Paul wasn’t actually working. He had just arrived in this state only 2 months previous, evidently to escape these “stalkers.” I wonder what he did to piss them off. He was studying to get his med tech license in North Carolina but not actually working just studying. It was very suspicious now that I look back on it.

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      • Wonder how he got all his money, he sounds like he is up to no good. Im glad she is away from him. There’s too many scary people out there. . I would have her read those books on toxic relationships, narcissism and even domestic abuse, there is one by this guy named Lundy, I think called Why Does He Do that? It may be a good book to help her screen out bad dudes.

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        • He paid for his house in CASH. How he had all that money seems very suspicious. My daughter thinks he may have been a a midlevel drug dealer. That would explain those mysterious stops at people’s houses in Florida where she was forced to wait in the car.

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