Empathy in an NPD person: is this possible?

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Recently I met a woman who seems to be a narcissist, but who insists she is an empath. She is quite grandiose about her high empathy too, always pointing out how sensitive she is to the moods of others. From my own observations, this woman does actually seem to know how other people are feeling and is upset if the feelings are negative, even if they aren’t directly related to her. At the same time she is very full of herself, arrogant, exaggerates her achievements, and entitled-acting. She’s also someone I wouldn’t want to get very close to because she seems like a manipulator and game-player. Yet the other day when someone talked about their grief over a dying relative, she cried with them. She didn’t appear to be attempting to gain something for herself, though I could be wrong. I wondered about this–is she just a very good actor, or was her behavior sincere? Or is she not really a narcissist at all?

The DSM-V cites that a person must have 5 out of 9 criteria to qualify for the NPD diagnosis. Lack of empathy is one of the most well-known and common of these criteria, but nowhere does it say this trait MUST be present. So the way I understand it, a person can still have five of the 9 criteria but not lack of empathy. But other than this person I described above (who may be faking empathy or not really be a narcissist) I’ve never met a narcissist who has much if any empathy, at least not for other people, although they are usually extremely sensitive when it comes to themselves.

If anyone has experience with this or can shed some light on this question, or has known a high-empathy narc, please speak up.

31 thoughts on “Empathy in an NPD person: is this possible?”

  1. I think you are good to follow your instincts on this one. Even if it is not NPD, those red flags are an indicator of something. I do think they can fake empathy, or have a hidden reason for wanting to be thought of as having empathy.

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  2. I knew someone online who I also believe was a narcissist and she also insisted she could feel other peoples feelings and it gets overwhelming for her and she was also a animal lover and hated animal abuse. That is what she said about herself but for all I know she could have been lying too. She really did believe her own delusions so some thought she was a schizophrenic which would explain her accusations on people but someone thought she had BPD and the forum admin thought she was a narcissist. She did appear to believe her own lies about people so I thought she was nuts. Do you know if narcissists are really that delusional? Do they really see themselves as victims and are they blind to their own abuse on others and blind to their own insults and all? No wonder they rarely change of they are unable to see themselves and refuse to believe what others tell them about them.

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    • I rehabilitate wild animals, too.

      Deer will kill themselves trying to escape you even if you’re trying to help them when they are wounded. They don’t know any better. I’ve been bitten, kicked and had my heart broken trying to save them when I fail and many other animals. Its a compulsion and when I see something wounded I do not have a choice.

      In the case of the deer, they’re too big to subdue and too dangerous. We cant help many over 6 months old. I still try.

      It’s the most heartbreaking thing I’ve ever had to watch.

      Every time I find a wounded animal, mostly in traffic, I will run into the street to save it and I don’t think twice about me or my injuries it may cause me. I’m cautious but not very important in those situations, I can handle being injured if it saves their life or gives them any sort of comfort even if its just not dying alone and afraid.

      When I date someone and they scream at me for making them pull over to save a wounded animal on the highway, it’s a huge red flag. Or if they don’t love animals? Huge red flag.

      How we treat those we consider lesser than us is a huge indication of how we treat people as our equals.

      One person tried to trick me saying he was qualified in trying to helping me with my wildlife.

      He was a liar. He wasn’t who he said he was. Huge red flag. He put my pet’s health in danger… Possibly my own. Guess what he was?
      He was a man hiding behind a mask (of all things). I hate masks and the cold sterility of words without a face.

      Back to the deer, the reason they do this is they know as soon as they’re wounded and cry for help a predator is 9/10 right there to take advantage of them. I don’t know about you but I can definitely identify with that.

      I cant be mad at the deer (or any animal) for being afraid of me and assuming I am there to hurt them.

      Their assessment is logical and exists for a reason.

      I feel what is really narcissistic is people who think they’re the exception to the rule and get mad at the deer for kicking them in the head and call the deer a narcissist, you know?

      I can only be as cautious and calming as possible and understand their instincts are in place for a reason.

      Thats why I will trust animals and for the most part and avoid people. Animals have never hurt me out of malice. Human beings are soulless and cruel, in general.

      There are only few people I will let see me weak, but they have to have a face and empathy or no dice.

      Is it a wolf in sheep’s clothing or a sheep in wolves clothing? It’s always hard to tell.

      So I avoid those situations like the plague and I will, like the deer, lash out to get away even to those who are trying to help me. When I am hurt I don’t know the difference sometimes.

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      • You sound like a sweet person and I don’t think lot of people would try to help because they would be too worried about being harmed.But animal agencies who help them tend to have tools to do it because they an sedate them. We can’t because we don’t have the tools. I think there is a number we can call if we ever see a animal in need. I wonder if calling the police helps because they can just call the animal control or something and have them come out and help the animal. I once gasped when I saw a dead cat in a bag and the next day it was gone. i have no idea how the cat died like if it got hit by a cat and someone put it in the bag and placed it there but if it died from abuse, that would be so terrible.

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        • I actually trained to rescue them. The problem is that unfortunately because the sedatives are narcotics a vet has to prescribe them (they’re kept under lock and key) or be on site to administer them. They do not issue us tranquilizers, unfortunately.

          When I read the manual while training you have to euthanize in some of the most inhumane ways. Shooting them or breaking their necks. I just can’t bring myself to do that. It’s too awful. If I cant find a vet I either administer first aid and keep the animal stable or like most recently I couldn’t find anyone after sitting on the side of the road with this buck who had head trauma for an hour the police had to come and I had to make the call to have the officer put him down.
          I, honestly, could barely even handle it.

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    • I knew someone like that online too! I wonder if it was the same person. It really can be tricky sometimes, when someone says they were a victim…how do we know they weren’t actually the victimizers? I think women have the edge in this–if a man says he was a victim, people assume he is really an abuser and is lying (and he could be), but there are abusive women and abused men too. If a woman says she was a victim, people assume she is telling the truth. Online, there’s really no way to tell for sure if someone is a victim or an abuser. A “victim” could just be projecting. Also, I think it’s entirely possible for someone to be both a victim and an abuser. Many BPD women (and men) qualify as both, since they are often codependent to a narc, but can be quite abusive themselves. I think covert narcissists can also be both abusers and victims at the same time.

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      • I showed you that person online once in email and you never told me if she was the same person. She might have been you know. Did that person also claimed to be autistic you’re talking about?

        My parents automatically assumed my ex was the abuser when he claimed to be the victim. I thought they were just being judgmental and making assumptions. I found out they were correct and based on how he treated me makes me wonder if that is why his ex left him and why she abused him and cheated on him. Not saying it was okay for her to do those things him but sometimes victims fight back by also doing the abuse to their abuser and the victim may also end up cheating. Then even us as victims wonder what if we were the abuser? What if it was our fault for the abuse? What if we’re the narcissist?

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        • Oh, yes, now I remember! Sorry. No, now that I think of it, they were not the same person, but they are probably fairly common online.
          Abusers are good at making victims feel like abusers and questioning themselves because of gaslighting and projecting, which they can be good at. My ex had me convinced I was insane and the selfish, narcissistic one, but once I got away i was able to see the truth. I think this is pretty common. It’s very crazymaking, but that’s their intention, to make us doubt ourselves and our own instincts.

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          • Mine never told me I was the abuser or the narcissistic but he would say I was self centered and lacked empathy and I was the one who changed. When I started to read abut narcissism online and reading how victims react to it afterwards, I started to wonder what if I was the abuser, what if he did NC with me rather than just doing the silent treatment and ghosting me? Also I started to wonder what if his abuse was because of me? I figured that is why we start to question ourselves and wonder if we are the abuser or not. That seems to be a normal thing after an abusive relationship/marriage when we didn’t realize our partner was a narcissist. Then I hear a real narcissist wouldn’t even ask themselves that so if you are wondering that about yourself, the chances are you are not a narcissist.

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  3. I wouldn’t go poking around to find out because sometimes you just find out they are complete nightmares just like you thought.

    Trust your gut but feel it out. Observe their behavior. Be patient, I guess.

    Some people cope to choose to hide their faces in anonymity but the heart has a face hidden for a reason.

    I have empathy on a scale you cant even imagine. I wont show it to everyone but the feelings and fear consumes me on the inside.
    Nobody has access to hurting my feelings unless I have crossed them off the psychopathy checklist.

    Also something interesting I have learned the last few months: Anonymity, no faces and clowns and other things like that hide facial expressions. I need to read them to feel safe to let someone in.

    That’s why they have always scared the hell out of me to the point of panic attacks, I hit defcon 5 and my guard goes way up.

    I can totally relate to your concerns here. I just cope differently than you do, I guess?

    Love, a highly attuned empath (who hides it to ward off psychopaths, I attract them like magnets) who stares at people, including myself, through a mirror for a living.

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    • Empaths are right to be VERY cautious because they are most often the targets. But empaths/HSPs also have the advantage of having that 6th sense about someone and it’s usually correct. Good on you for listening to that still, small voice.
      Don’t worry– I have no reason to get to know this woman any more than I do. But the behavior she displayed was curious and made me wonder.

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  4. In my belief, this is a sign that the sophistication of narcissism has increased but I assumed it would bc as info comes out to help us, the info is used against us at the same time.

    Think of psychopaths in a way they can cry but no one will truly know if they are dying solely for themselves. I have seen so many crocodile tears that have at times appeared to be genuine for another but when we look closer, we will see behind the mask of deception. Also, we must be mindful about our own experiences w narcissists. it takes time with them in an intimate setting to truly understand their masks. To meet someone randomly will not reveal what’s hidden, because as my experience has been, while they all have similar masks, some are more sophisticated than others are.

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  5. She may be a covert narcissist, instead of a full-fledged, card-carrying, flag-toting one. My mother was very empathic, yet also very insensitive when carrying out her own agenda or my father’s agenda on me. Hence, my conclusion that the lady you describe is the daughter of and/or wife of a narcissist and thus empathic, yet still a covert narcissist herself.

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  7. She sounds like a high level Borderline Narcissist with a Saviour Complex. That’s a high level codependent personality. It’s still all about ego, of course!

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  10. Hmm… I’ve been thinking a lot about this myself. My ex was diagnosed with NPD at some point before we met, but he’s very self aware, and displays a great deal of empathy at times (even when he has nothing to gain from it) though not at all consistently. I wonder if it’s more where the NPD developed as a defense mechanism because they were highly sensitive, and every once and a while the true self slips out as a genuine empathetic response?

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    • I think it is. In fact I wrote about this here: https://luckyottershaven.com/2015/06/12/malignant-narcissists-hsps-gone-bad/ I think many narcissists were born HSPs and narcissism was the only defense mechanism nearly perfect in masking their real sensitivity (and doesn’t do such a good job of hiding it when it comes to themselves LOL) because it replaces their oversensitive true self with a false one.

      I read once that narcissists have “selective empathy.” When it’s safe for them to do so, they can be empathetic, or at least some can. They just choose not to be. There’s also “cold empathy”, where they KNOW how you feel but don’t CARE. They might use it against you too.

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      • That sounds about right. No my experience the “cold empathy” has been strictly defensive, but it was most definitely there. Although, to be perfectly honest I’m not entirely sure my ex was diagnosed correctly. I’m not a professional by any means, nor am I entirely clear on the circumstances of his diagnosis. He talked about it very openly which is a bit odd for NPD, plus he always claimed every characteristic listed in the DSM, almost like he adopted the disorder to explain his instability. He also had a tendency to chameleon and absorb the behaviors around him much more than project a consistent false self. Definitely a PD, but I’m not entirely sure NPD. I’m not exactly impartial either after having been intimately involved with him. It could just be my own feelings and denial getting in the way. What I know about NPD and what his behaviors suggested don’t exactly fit.

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        • Your ex sounds more like a Borderline to me. Of course, I cannot give him a dx but the chameleon-like behavior sounds very BPD. If he is a narcissist he sounds like a covert one. Covert NPD and BPD look similar on the surface.

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          • You’re not the first person to suggest borderline. It’s what my experience with him suggests. Like you, I can’t diagnose, only speculate. It does make me wonder if getting a more accurate diagnosis would help him. He was always trying to “get better” when we were together. Of course it could have all been a ruse to keep me around too. All of it is a moot point since I went no contact last year, but my heart still hurts for him and his struggle even if it wasn’t entirely genuine.

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            • It would be helpful if he could get a new dx. BPD isn’t curable either, but it’s more treatable than NPD. DBT training worked so well for me I don’t even have to remember to be mindful anymore–it’s second nature. Borderlines also have empathy that NPDs lack, which is another reason I’m thinking he’s not really a narc.

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