Mission

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9/3/2016: cosmetic and other changes to this blog.
https://luckyottershaven.com/2016/09/03/lucky-otters-haven-has-a-new-look/

 

I started this blog in September, 2014 as a way to journal about the confused and conflicted emotions I was experiencing (and still experience) about leaving a narcissistic (malignant) ex I had been with for 20+ years and coping with the feelings of rejection and abandonment I’d been coping with most of my life due to having been raised in a dysfunctional and narcissistic family. I decided to make my blog public, not because I think I “know it all,” but because feedback and conversation is important to me and gives me new perspectives on what I’m feeling. It also helps me feel so much less alone. Everyone who posts here or has ever posted here has been a therapist or a teacher to me–even those who don’t always agree with me–so let me extend my thanks to all of you for helping build Lucky Otter’s Haven into a real community. I care about each and every one of you who has helped make this blog what it is.
And to you lurkers who just read, come on in sometime and introduce yourself.

There are always going to be some people who misunderstand your motives. Of course, when you blog, that’s inevitable. It’s a hazard of the trade. People aren’t always going to see eye to eye, even if they understand what you said perfectly. I know I don’t always make myself clear about where I stand and sometimes I even get confused because emotions can be so confusing, bewildering, and sometimes conflicting. That being said, I feel now is the time to clarify what this blog promotes and stands for, what it does not, and what I expect.

What this blog promotes:

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1. Healing from narcissistic abuse–both to help myself and others, through sharing our experiences, stories, and providing educational articles and other media such as videos.
2. Education about NPD, malignant narcissism, and related character disorders that harm their victims.
3. Education about and my personal experiences about having BPD, AvPD (avoidant PD), complex PTSD and Seasonal Affective Disorder (the first three most likely caused by abuse when I was a child)
4. Education about ways we can better handle narcissists when and if we must.
5. Civil and intelligent conversation. We do not always have to agree, just respect each other.
6. Fun. I believe that going off topic sometimes is a healthy thing, and I also try to include humor, recipes, photographs, music and cartoons as well as articles about topics that do not have to do with narcissism or related topics. Narcissism is a heavy and dark subject, and can be very triggering. We all need a break now and then. I also believe humor and laughter is a great healing balm, so I do try to pepper this blog with jokes and cartoons that poke fun at narcissists. (This is not “narc bashing” as one person accused me of–humor is just a way to make them seem less threatening).
7. I also offer support and resources for people who have NPD (or think they do) who are self aware and willing to change. I do not believe, as some other ACON bloggers do, that all narcissists are hopeless and cannot get better. I have received a number of emails from people with NPD who are in pain and want help. I have no reason to believe these letters are insincere or their writers have ulterior motives. In some cases these people may not actually have NPD (they just think they do), but it’s not for me to judge or diagnose. I try to direct these people to appropriate resources and offer as much support as I can. That’s all I can do.
8. I have recently added BPD as a primary focus along with narcissism because I suffer from it. While people with BPD (the more aggressive types) can be as manipulative and toxic to others as those with NPD, I think most tend to fall more in the codependent/victim role and are far more likely to try to harm themselves than others. Borderlines are welcome here and I encourage them to share their viewpoints and stories. Most were victims of narcissistic abuse. I think there are a lot of misunderstandings surrounding BPD and the awful stigma it carries. Speaking up about BPD can be a way to promote understanding and educate others about this devastating disorder.

What I do not promote:

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1. I do not promote trying to make a relationship with a narcissist “work” or staying with one, although there may be situations where going No Contact is not possible. In those cases it may be possible to have very little contact or work “around” the narcissist, but I don’t recommend it at all.
2. I am not being paid or otherwise compensated by any outside people, organizations, or other entities to promote their work or their viewpoints. This blog is 100% my own and based on my own ideas and experiences, and where I reblog or quote others, they are credited.
3. I do not promote the idea that all narcissists are inherently evil/monsters/destined for hell/inhuman machines/hopeless/incurable/cursed, etc. While many of their actions are evil and some have become evil because that is what they chose (and at that point it’s probably too late for them), I firmly believe narcissism is a spectrum disorder and “narcs” can run the gamut from merely annoying and self-centered but still self-aware and wanting to change, all the way up to malignant/psychopathic/sociopathic and perfectly happy being that way. If anyone has an issue with my belief that narcissism runs on a spectrum and that there may be hope for some of them, there are plenty of other blogs do not promote that viewpoint.
4. I do NOT condone narcissistic or psychopathic behaviors nor do I think we should go around “hugging the narcs.” I still think the best way to handle a narcissist is to not deal with them at all and that opinion is not about to change. That doesn’t mean we can’t try to understand them though, because understanding may make their actions more comprehensible. Understanding does not mean enabling. They are two different things.
5. This blog is not a forum for narcissists to come to get better. While I don’t hold to a “narc-free” policy (they may post here), I expect them to remain civil and respectful of the many victims posting here–and so far the few narcissists who have posted here have not given me any problems. I do include articles about healing or treating NPD from time to time, and I will communicate with narcissists who have a willing desire to change (and I have, usually through email because most of them don’t feel comfortable posting on a blog for victims of abuse). I will try to help them as much as I can (which usually means directing them to other sources because I am not qualified to be a therapist to them or to anyone for that matter), but the primary purpose of this blog is to help and support victims of narcissistic abuse, not narcissists themselves. Psychforums, Out of the Fog, and HealNPD are all good resources for people suffering from NPD who have a willing desire to change and improve the way they treat others and have more rewarding relationships. It’s my belief that a world where some self aware narcissists can change would be a better world for all of us.
6. I am not a licensed mental health professional and therefore am not qualified to diagnose anyone or offer therapy. I believe sharing our experiences and telling our stories, and education about narcissism and the disorders its victims suffer from are all helpful things that can help us get better and live a narc-free life. If anyone wants to share anything they don’t feel comfortable posting in public, they are free to email me and I will try to help as much as I can.

What I expect.

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1. Civil and courteous behavior. That does not always mean “agreement.” Intelligent debate is okay and even desirable.
2. Controversial topics are okay, but please respect the views of others.
3. Religion may be discussed and is even encouraged, but using religion to shame others is not okay. Please respect the beliefs of others even if you do not agree with them.
4. No bashing of other commenters is allowed.
5. No trolling or bullying in general (such comments will be removed or not approved)

That’s pretty much it. The rules here are few.

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27 Responses to Mission

  1. Sue says:

    I came across your blog when searching something, I wanted info, and your blog came up. After reading your introduction and rules, I have become interested in the discussions themselves. I was a professional in psych for over 10 years and have been a patient in treatment for 25 years. The missing ingredient was going to church and drawing close to God because even with my knowledge base and being in ongoing treatment, that alone wasn’t enough.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Mike says:

    I think it takes a lot of courage for you to do what you are doing,and I wanted to tell you how much you are appreciated. Keep it up. You are an inspiration to me, and I know you are to others. Keep On Keepin’ On.

    Mike

    Liked by 1 person

  3. revengestar says:

    Ok, i seriously need to follow back here.
    AWSOME BLOG!
    (*´▽`*) (*°∀°)=3 (infatuation emoticons)

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Kimberly Mock says:

    I have been trying to find information on narcissistic personality disorder due to the fact that my soon to be X, as of Sunday July 17, has changed in front of my eyes. Like night and day, I’m from Oklahoma, and am presently in California, he brought me out here because he “loves me and wants me with him”. He isn’t the same sweet, charming, fun guy that he was in Oklahoma, he has verbally abused me, gaslighted me, flat out lied, and contradicted himself so many times, so that he would be right. After reading your information and many others, I have realized that I’m really not the “crazy” one, he almost had me convinced that it was “all me” that created the problems and arguments. Thank you so much for the insight about NPD. I will continue to read your blog, you have me hooked, lol.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. nikitalondon says:

    Your blog is great. Thanks for having it 🌷

    Liked by 1 person

  6. katiesdream2004 says:

    I just found your mission statement because of your blog remodel. I love it, It makes me think I need to go back to my own site and hammer out my mission too in more detail so I’m more intentional to stay on mission when I post. I live this what you do promote and don’t promote and the basic ground rules. very helpful

    Liked by 1 person

    • luckyotter says:

      I may revise that too, but since that would require a major rewrite (and nothing that’s in it has changed that much), I just put a link to this post for the time being up on top of the mission statement. People can click it on if they’re interested.

      Liked by 1 person

  7. G says:

    Really like your website. I have been diagnosed with traits of BPD but not the full disorder. I was abused from age 14 to 20 by a girl in my class at school. When I first got friends with her she was so nice, flattering, wanting to hang out with me a lot. I already had a large group of well established friendships. I would never have dreamt in a million years she would turn out the way she did. Once she discarded and smeared me my life changed completely. The problem was I didn’t tell anyone who could have helped me while it was going on. This is a big regret of mine because I could have got it stopped right from the start. It’s only years later that I realised she is highly likely to be a sociopath/narcissist.

    Liked by 1 person

    • luckyotter says:

      She abused you like that for 6 years? Yes, I suppose a relationship that long lasting would do some serious damage to you. I’m sorry she discarded you, but you must also know that you are actually a lot better off without her in your life, especially if she’s also a sociopath/narcissist. I’m sorry you had to go through the discard though–I know how devastating that is, and must have been very difficult.
      I’m glad you like my site. 🙂

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  8. Amanda McLay says:

    I am a scapegoat adult child and although I knew from a very young child that I was treated differently I had no idea why and if I really was because if I ware to tell someone they would think I was mad because my narcissistic mother was mostly covert.
    Although the physical abuse was where and when ever some one had offended her or made har mask slip, she was such a coward so would come home in a blinding rage and beat me with any object that was to hand eg sweeping brush, wooden hairbrush, or dirty wet cloths slapped repeatedly around my ankles.
    She told me from as far back as I remember, that my father, who loved my older sister too much ( to this day my mother is jealous of the relationship they share ) that he could not love me and was not even aware of my existence most of the time.
    I was neglected given hand mevdown clothes that never fitted and was always cold as never had the accessories like warn jacket , gloves or scarfs. I had been brought from Africa ( where I was born ) at the age of 5 + and found the climate a terrible shock as I had only known heat.
    So i think the cold was worse for me and I still at 54 hate winter as the cold is so unbearable.
    I believe my parents who were treated like royalty in Africa ( the privalidged white couple who enjoyed a lot of partying, drinking, and god knows what else.
    I remember my sister was asked what her mummy did and sh said she lies on the couch , drinking whisky and picking her nose.
    Tha only caretaker I had was a native of Kenya and was referred to as ” the house boy” .
    He gave me care and looked after my basic needs but would have been inappropriate to be any more familiar than that.
    I do remember an occasions when I was hurt and bleeding badly, he wrapped my hand tightly to try and stem the flow of blood and carried me on his shoulders for a long time to find my mother who was at a camp inoculating the children. ( she was a nurse but only started training at 16 and gave it up,when she married at 22. But due to the lack of medical care she was employed to administer inoculations to coloured children kept in camps.
    She didn’t do many hours and was in the armature dramatic ps, bridge club, badminton and any other pleasure persuit which almost all involving alcohol and cigarettes.
    I think because my father was so attached to my sister my mothers jealousy was so bad that it was almost obscene. So she wanted a boy when pregnant with me ( I don’t know that she thought a boy would divert his attention from my sister or some froydian idea that she would act towards a boy the way my father did with my older sister. However, I was a big disappointment as I was a girl and that sealed my fate .
    So I think I was left to the house not to provide my needs she had no interest in me and I think my scapegoat role was a taken.
    Sorry I am not good at condensing my thoughts so a bit long winded so will post an account if the years from 6 to 12,the next post I write.
    Maybe someone will relate to my story so far, if not you may become more inclined to associate with my story after the next instalment.
    I just feel that if I write each stage at a time I am not bombarding you and am hoping that putting it on the page it will help to cleanse me.
    Amanda
    X

    Liked by 1 person

    • luckyotter says:

      Hi Amanda, I am sorry you had such a horrible mother who phyically and emotionally abused you. It wasn’t your fault you were a scapegoat — your mother sounds like a very sick and evil person who had no business raising children and had no idea how to raise a daughter. Stick around and read everything you can about narcissistic abuse and be gentle with yourself. I highly recommend Pete Walker’s book “C-PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving.” It helped me immensely.

      Like

  9. Amanda McLay says:

    Thanks I will take a look, I have bi polar which has only recently been discovered but they believe it started years ago as a reaction to the abuse.
    I have read all I can about the subject and though I knew when she tried to repeat her behaviour on my children it was abuse, yet I never correlated that she abused me.
    I know that is so unbelievable but I probably knew but didn’t feel worth it to take her to task like I did for my children. From the outset she was never allowed to be alone with my children yet she still tried to weave her poison.
    When my little girl was three ( mum didn’t like her because she was very intuitive so could read her like a book and my mother knew it ) yet again I knew it but still didn’t relate it to my treatment )
    Anyway it was Christmas and she gave each child a bag of presents, my son got remote control cars and walkie talkies and god knows what else, my daughter got a second hand jewellery box, som comics which had obviously been in the shop window for a very long time, the ones you buy every week and you get a piece to put towards making a princesses castle or some such thing. Only there were just a jumble no two weeks together so we’re uslass and she was to you to read the actual comics.
    Once the present opening had finished and all tidied up, my mother went to a side room and brought out a brand new bike for my son.
    Exactly what Christmas was like when I was a child I got crap and my sister was spoiled.
    I was so angry that I felt sick, but was very proud as well,because instead of making a big thing about the bike he went and sat by his little sister and put his arm round her and said ” never mind Amy I have a lot of money in my piggy bank I will buy you a bike.” The whole family were there and saw exactly what she was like ( in laws and friends ) she hadn’t expected it to go so wrong because if that had been my big sister she would strut around like a peacock making sure she made me feel as bad as she could.
    When I left I told her I would never be back cause she wasn’t going to treat my children like that.
    However, my father had a tremendous hold on me, because my mother had told me all my life that he didn’t love me I would take any scrap of affection I could to mean he loved me ( more fool me)
    She walked in the house behind him I just sat on the stool. Didn’t stand up and she bent down and hugged me ( which I did not reciprocate ) and ahe said I love you ! Then my father said ” See there we are all mended. Always get these things with mothers and their daughters” she was already in the kitchen making tea and there I was back in the fold again in my rightful place ( scapegoat)
    One night I was reliving a scene from childhood, because the company were talking about how precious it was when a child bought a gift for their mum ( and it was gregarious broaches with plastic stones ) which would never be worn but to the child it was the most precious jewel.
    They all talked about the cabinet they kept all the gifts their children had given them.
    I told them that it wasn’t like that for us, I still remember distinctly, my sister and I seeing a ornamental rabbit in clothes leaning against a well with a chick in it. We thought it was wonderful.
    My mothers birthday had landed on Mother’s Day and Easter as I recall so a perfect gift for all as we didn’t get money, we had to earn it and if we were lucky we got juice bottles that we could take to the shop and collect the refund.
    The day we had enough to buy it I was so excited we wrapped it and hid it in my caravan room.
    Then came the day for her to open it and we watched with eyes bright and as she folded back the paper she gave a terrible scowl. My heart sank.with total disappointment.
    By that night I had done something that brought out her rage again ( although I had do nothing she said it was because my face was tripping me ) and she lifted the ornament at me full thrust. I just ducked in time and the beautiful gift had made a whole in the wall and was lying broken at my feet.
    The moment I finished speaking she said I was talking rubbish, I was making it up blah blah blah.
    I turned to my sister who had been there and said it’s true isn’t it you were there and she replied that she didn’t remember a thing. Once again I left as no one was going to sit there in front of my children and call me a liar. Again two weeks latter there she would be with dad and the pattern would start again.
    I pride myself ( the only thing I do ) is that I have total integrity and I was trying to instil in my children that they mustn’t ever tell a lie as it means that I would not be able to stand up for them because I wouldn’t be able to trust them. ( to this day at 24 and 20 ) they don’t lie, if they start to they look at me and say I’m sorry mum I just can’t lie to you. I must admit I’m very aware of anyone lying, I’ve never ever understood why people have the need. Probably because my mother preached honesty all her life yet she told so many lies she would sometimes forget the li.
    My whole life has been an uphill battle for survival. I was stalked and raped at 16 but couldn’t get help as she had conditioned me not to involve her or my dad in any of my troubles cause my dad could get hurt and it would be my fault.
    Adults were always right full stop so if a man touched me innapropriately he was in the right.
    I have suffered a great many traumas in my life because I was conditioned to never make a fuss or question adults.
    I had 2 miscarriages one of them my first pregnancy, I was devistated but why would go
    However, the very worst harm they caused me is when I had a full on breakdown, my dad phoned and asked what I thought was wrong an I said ” can you tell me why my wants, my needs come below every one else’s, not just the family , not just the outer circle but, the worlds”
    He didn’t answer just said I was a poor wee soul ( 50 years old ) and I was lucky that my husband had stood by me.” Great response ” just add to my distress.
    Gradually over the preceding months I was led down a road which made me question my life and try and find out if what happened to me was in fact abuse. I was on a web site and a pop up at the bottom of the page said if you are on this page you probably need to read this.
    I clicked on to the page and it was entitled 21 traits of a narcissistic mother. And there it was my way forward I have been looked after by a psychiatrist and attended many group sessions for survivors of abuse.
    Unfortunately for me no one on any of the groups had expierienced anything like me. Most had been sexually abused by a family member which was awful and I felt dreadfully sorry for their hurt.
    However I grew more and more frustrated as no one knew how I felt.
    I decided to ask my father to come through but not to dare bring my mum, my husband had already warned my whole family she was to stay away because it was my biggest fear that I be dragged back in once again. I had my father on a pedistal as I always craved his love but when I told him what my team had said and what I had come to believe and had done much research and it was completely as I had been treated all my life.
    I also told him that he had me working far to young ( he had a garage and I used to be in the place alone till 10 pm 3 nights a week and two shifts at weekend ) I was 12 and it was where a multitude of traumas took place. He replied that I wanted the money, and I said you were the adult.
    He left me claiming I was a lunatic and the oedistal I had held him on started to crumble just like my health. I was suicidal I felt that I was never loved and i remembered that when we were looking for a baby name for our first child we got a book of names and their meanings and would you believe my name meaning is ” able to beloved ” and at the time I sighed with relief and then had a little cry.
    Anyway my sister has harmed me all my life, and was outraged when I sent her the copy of narcissistic traites, she roared down the phone how dare someone that hasn’t even met my mum say she is a narcissist and I replied no,one did . I am saying it as I researched and found it for my self. I then realised that in fact she was a much worse narcissist than my mother. That why she went mad because she saw what she was on the paper infront of her.
    My mother obviously denied everything, and was told if she ever set foot in our village again the police would be called.
    My father took ill shortly after and the part of me that wanted to believe he loved me went back to see him. He thought that would be it I would be back in the fold, but I saw him for what he was a pathetic piece of work who knew what my mother was doing and supported her.

    I was polite then left and swore I will never have anything more to do with them.
    He is now nearing death and it means nothing as I have mourned the parents I thought I had, and I had mourned the loss love that little girl suffered, and then I got strong.
    I will never see my parents or my sister again and I’m good with that. However, I have a brother who was behind me all the way but since my dad got ill he has changed and I don’t know what to do. He has said that my sister just wouldn’t do or say the things she did do and say, we were there he wasn’t but they have got to him and I am struggling as if I go nc I would loose my niece and nephew who I love like my own so my mental health and my physical health is at risk again
    I have agreed to let him visit with my psychiatrist in January but till that time we have no contact
    My father and my brother were loved and respected by my husband and he hates them all as he cannot understand how an enemy could be so cruel to a living thing never mind their own flesh and blood.
    I can see my mother now playing the victim of some play my daughter is mentally ill and has hurt me to the core with her madness and my husband is dying ( o poor me) but my brother and my sister have no emotional contact with her they go and visit but once my father dies she will be alone in a home.
    There will be a will of course so maybe they will visit an odd time but her last twist of the knife for them will be she leaves it all to something that will carry her name like a trophy and money to be won each year by a school child or some such thing, thinking that will keep her memory alive, but it won’t cause those who know her can’t stand her and would not acknowledge and the school would know nothing about her either.
    If it is something like that I may choose to enlighten the institution as to her wicked ways.

    Two things that make me furious are
    1. You reap what you sow but none of us victim sowed anything
    2. She is ill and needed help. Well maybe but she would not have wanted help. Regardless of that she knew exactly what she was doing and chose to do it and had my sister and dad as her enablers. They are pure Evil
    I see people who are caring and love their children and they die young and their families mourn them for ever.
    I have always wished she would die instead cause there would be nothing to mourn.
    I am now apparently, a codependent and an empath ( only discovered this week and was horrified ) but I’m seeing a specialist in complex PTSD and we are trying to find the real me the me that is innately me before I was stolen away and left as a worthless wretch, a no mark and a mentally ill idiot.
    It is my biggest wish for my family to have a mum who is happy and whole as none of them have known me that way
    For all of you out there the only way is to educate yourself as much as you can so you fully understand what was done to you and then turn your back to them all and don’t ever go back no matter what because if you do you will be back in their grasp. No matter how strong you think you are they are very insipid and cunning and will win if you give in.
    I will not attend any funerals so no one can hurt me.

    I send love to each and every one of us
    Believe you can escape and you will
    My regret was that it took me so long, I wish I had imigrated when I got married at 21 and I would have saved my family 32 years of my being a victim.
    Amanda

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  10. I really enjoy your “Songs About Narcissists” series/posts! If I may, you listed a song by The Deftones named, “The Chauffeur.” The song is actually an amazing classic by Duran Duran released in 1982, if you’d like to give credit. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  11. I am so glad I found you through dream big dream often! I look forward to seeing more of your posts!

    Liked by 1 person

  12. There was just a case in California where is very abusive father, a narcissist was beating his child almost constantly because he had emotional disorders and autism likely from the narcissistic family. After the father threatened to kill the mother who the boy was close with The boy killed the father during a violent confrontation.

    Despite the overwhelming evidence of abuse and neglect that the child went through and the fact that he had a mental capacity of a six-year-old, he was still sentence to be in a juvenile detention center until he turns at least 25 years old.
    The
    They made a big story about it and it was one of the saddest stories that I’ve ever read related to child abuse and as A person would be an abuse myself by my stepfather for several years I can totally relate to what the boy went through due to constant physical and emotional abuse. I also snapped on my abusive stepfather by threatening to stab him during a fight.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Eriik says:

    Came across this while surfing about Domestic Violence for battered men my sister encouraged me at least to look at blogs from survivors and not give up yet.
    And almost gave up after reading something in one blog that not only is hurtful even though it can be oppinionated as; “its only a joke .”
    Its really no different then when talked about men making jokes that have upset and found to be hurtful and in no different from what is supposed to be funny which i tried to openly mind how that narc joke was and how it made me feel as a man.(please in all fairness just to be equally heard without a sex gender sexist free for all cynical sex gender roast slam bashing from anyone that has been devasted by someone they had so dearly fell unconditionally for believing that who was supposed to be that of the same feelings to be felt in return. And when at the exact moment of where we all of us were at that very moment in time finding out that this person was really not who they were really at all changed all of us forever at that moment. And its totally understandable but needs to be recognized to see someone so hurt, and to become so despondant and bitterly start becoming something of what just me is going to call it. Cause perhaps i dont know what else to name this type of hurt to be aware of is yes something was taken, the shock of disbelief standing with losing all of your bearings and the literal feeling of the famous expression we hate to hear because we didnt want to believe as anything else of that expression to have ones heart cut out and seeing them(our narcs) callously treat what we hold in reverance as how religous people are to their faiths, because it had stunned us to nearly catatonic and then that it really felt we were really gonna physically die from that actual feeling we famously call the heart break.
    I dont know very much, but thats exactly how that felt right at that moment in time.
    We all have the same connection to empathetically relate to that right?
    So how come we, and thats all of us men too.
    Why or what in the name of sweet holy tasty tea are we,. Or seeing the impact of more division being wedged between us when the sex gender bashing jokes start angrily flowing out, which has to be added to being called abuse too.
    That joke about lacking any sensitivity and not being able to empathize in what is a female sexist on male demeaning insult and deliberate put down on the opposite sex with the latter half of that joke retorting about causing and giving a underline that its ok and justifiable to take out on the next guy after the narc guy so as he better not do even the littlest thing cause now you feel entitled to do serious bodily harm.
    Which you should only do as a break glass emergency split second life or death decision if you are really being physically attacked even though i do agree the male narc should for the mentally emotional screaming at you like the little undisiiplined screaming dumbass kid we often see behaving because the parents hide behnd excuses because theyre scared more of how theyll look pulling out the can of whoop a hard smackin spanking and snap that kid out so as not inadvertantly churning out another potential narc whether they be boy or girl.
    Cause thats an all out added on to our list to dos to learn about ourselves too you know.
    And ladies,. As a man there is no male narcissist spokesman that represents evey one of us. Ok?
    You know theres an existence of many good empathetic men.
    Rember the guy you always rejected even though you are very well aware we were being respectful and endearing where we do actually really listen, . because heres the bell ringer.
    You have forgotten that we were the guys you would say your famous line about why cant you meet a nice guy like us when we were right infront of you.
    Here im going to betray the secret order of men club where we wear silly hats and have those goofy looking pancake house lokking buildings for our club houses.
    By the way,. That is our parents generation that has those.
    Im a proud Generation X’r. thank you, where im very positive that you lovely women enjoy the generation you identify with.
    But even though there are empathetic & narc men, doesnt mean just because were all dudes,..
    Narc guys dont have any scruples to do any of that exact same to a capital T dark demonic backstab ya in the back later mega betrayal selfish behavior towards us empath guys.
    But we would rather deal with a male narc over a female narc.
    Its probably said the same too from your opposite of identifying a narc spectrum.
    There is a personal story that has heartache of the lonely feelings of pain that we all obvisously have in common.
    Where my narc plays one of the two leading roles! Thats my poking fun at her cynically.
    In reference to their grandiose aspliring to be famous ive noticed .
    Noticed that the current younger gen only cares about that. Yikes! When they become adults and take over.
    But, yeah,.. We men have ours too, and this is the first time feeling better that i didnt think and feel frustration theres nowhere to talk about this,. It is evil behavior, that it can grow to become deadly and not see it until its too late. A friend of mine, she said; “Im going to make you watch something i found on the internet. And your gonna watch it or you can join my husband outside in the snow putting the chains on all our cars.”
    Sorry,.. My memory gave me a flashback of a emional response feeling ill never forget.
    She made me watch a past recorded news documentary interview with and about this woman by the name of Jodi Arius and its still hard for me to not want to believe how could someone could do something so dark, evil and void of what characterizes the best most beautiful feelings that really difine us so individually different like no two snowflakes are exactly the same and be in awe of the beauty how its part of our own custom made individual personalities and be able to look at our faults with in us from whatever type of some querky bad habit ticks we acknowldge through our on going trials we put upon ourselves where as more emotional feelings are is pretty cool how it works where we get to feel what someone else is feeling provided that its voluntarily shared to someone.
    But sucks if its someone pretending and getting up close sensitive stuff they weaponize eventually as something they might possibly could use to either get something or sickly enjoy watching someone suffer.
    Jodi Arius when she goes before God (is what i believe, and sincerely respect and welcome to say what you believe that could be talked about on a different forum another time so as not to detract from what is hoped to be helpful as its been for me to express myself to people who have gone through this gut wrenching chest breaking emotional pain ill never let her know anymore about anything anytime anywhere no nothing not a thing shes ever gonna hear from me again, cause there aint gonna ever be another chance for access where she’ll be walled out grey rock style.
    Rock on that fake as margerine she nasty, no sweet cream real butter everyone actually really prefers nstead where that narc had to pathetically pretend to be someone as simular to me which i already had some idea but instead foolishly decided to give her the benefit of the doubt. Pain stakenly weathered through the times of frustration trying whatever would work for a communicating tool through books and books about communication ways to tell she really didnt need to try so hard and just be herself around me. (WOW! Little did i actually know what i was dealing with.) It has finally dawned on me why that charade she did, and there were three times i sctually got really pissed off towards her cause one of the times she was mirroring me i had beleived she and my brother was over too that day.
    To give you a qjick understanding about my relationship with my younger brother,. Heres hopefully how you can understand the way behave as so you can get to know my brother isnt a narcissist when it was asked of me before i had met what a narc truly and really is.
    My Brother is autistic, at first you wouldnt know it unless if you are long enough over time to notice some strange behahioral ticks he does that are actually really tamed down over the years he would practise doing so as to go as less noticed as possible to times i didnt notice.
    He is very outgoingly charasmatic where its made people ask me if he was up to sometkind of alterior motive which at first meeting maybe a few more times being around him most people by then provided if you didnt make fun of him he would let you know whats up with him. He guards himself well now from his young years getting bullied, the general perception and often mistaken and wrongly assciated with downsyndrme, cerebral palsy.
    Yes it is neurological but its very far and totally completely different. You get the picture.
    Where some of our most highest IQ mega brightest where weve had total geniuses i.e.Albert Einstien and Ophenheimer. Beetoven and actors Dan Akroyd, Seth Greene Anne Heche so on and on. But,.. Everynow and then theres some real dumb idiot usuallly its some fast talking that should have been a used carsalesman instead of a reporter.
    Thanks Giraldo Riveria for stupidly doing that.
    So you getting where this is going.
    Yup, it was a trainwreck.
    So my brother does impressions of me.
    I know there impressions and its part of his way to be accepted and fit in.
    Never bothered me cause he actually does a funny impression of me without making it look like hes putting me down at all infront of people.
    When theres no one and its just me and him and as brothers do eventually over family things we will butt heads.
    Like take your brand new toothbrush, leave the garbage van lid up where his dog thinks thats an invitation to eat and ylu know how dogs get.
    I dont mind gustav he doesnt have thumbs and fingers to pick it all back up but my brother does and i do things too like steo in gustavs soft cream liogs unknowingly and track it in and on the carpet in his house.
    So yes we will do some brother loving head butting and we are tight we have never hit eachother ever so we dont have a bite, however our barks are legendary but those who reallly know us actuall y have told us i sound like the over the top long nonstop blurtting every swear word known in existance with whatever comes to mind that at first sight one will think that that im an ogre going through a motion and if not listening to whats pouring out of my mouth that absolutely it does look like im a narcissist.
    Until you start to hear what im hollering and yaming about..
    Nothing.
    Oh you bet youll understsnd the cuss words and i know im doing it. Its me releasing some hot air i used to laugh at myself later with my friends laughing at what a silly spectacle everyone found entertaing and those who knew me as long as they have, knew it was all harmless and id be embarrasssed and apolize if i had said something that could have offended someone where its been come to be known when i did swear out if i didnt say every swear word was offensive as how the light heartedness joke has came to be known and i am aware its my friends way showing a term of endearment its exactly the same wsy for my Brother other than really do sounding like a angry Gilbert Godfrey s wearing parrot. His cussing is actually fully complete sentences that work. And its always evertime that it was about what he was the last thing i got careless about which is exactly the same things every time.
    His dog poops everywhere and hes got these lava garden stones everywhere and they look exactly the same where i actually tried to change that habit when he needs to pick up his dogs almomdroca dog drops cause it was mistaken for a rock once and my brother moved his wheel barrow asked if id smack those back in las we have done this many times until my hand smushed instead of smacked and the spattered elements perfectly scattered the scat all over my brothers face and new suit he wanted to wear out to some theatre show he was taking his girfriend now wife to.
    Yup we sure got into iright after he picked one up and beaned me on the side of my head.
    Went home all cheesed off of course where my narc asked what had happened only to have certian things i didnt say to be added and things that should have been said like i mentioned before about protracting and detracting made some really great disinformation that really hurt and severly damaged two brothers relationship and with my Mom that thinks i really do have a always dangerous temper now some what were mutual friends that i have learned the psycholodgy identification definition about flying monkeys and to corectly asscociate that those morons who lack the ability to put the simplest of things together that makes sense but would rather believe and often add on thier wonderful wackier and wackier 2 cents embellished ,.. And it sure came across at first someones playing a joke which shotly later it was severely wished it was a prank and everyone would laugh.
    It wasnt until when i thought that it had come to pass all of my friends who have known me for a very long time werent around anymore and were me and my brother hadnt spoke for awhile either as well with my Mom and entire family for quite sme time that it just felt so bad, depression was taking fast and rooting in and the only time i would feel just briefly ok but definetely not normal and catered to everything i beleived shed want, not knowing what was happening to me where it had been getting worse by the minute and i wasnt feeling well cause i wouldnt rest after work because i was told spreading my usaul chores throughout the week was more wasteful and wasnt doing what she considers is standard to be done my days of what was expected from me went from a 11 to 13 hours active in a day to 18 if i was lucky up to 21 or none.
    Earlier before days got like that my performance at my employment was getting noticed cause a few times i actually fell asleep standing up. I told donna i just dont have it what she needs me to do and ive got to get on a healthy routine. (Notice im making more “i ” references) this also was used as a brain washing tool, it was told to me by a therapist when i finally gone to get help that i is used alot by a reference of someone who is using that to get the other person to do more for them said cleverly as soon as the other one starts making to reference of i cant do this for you its too much i want to and i will but it will only work better or efficient to what you need if i could do it that wsy better for you?
    She convinced me because of the i referencing was that of me being selfish and to get me through those long brutal days and being sleep deprived and getting malnourished how can anyone make a rational decision with any good thought process thrown out the window.
    She had imtroduced me to atteral sayimg i needed it and she knows enough about it just as much as doctors and pharmisists and its my fault being stupid and afraid if i didnt she’d get mad at me for calling her a liar and something usually worse would follow up after that with each one that seemed like it was getting worse than before.
    Living in hell and scared out of my wit .
    It never ocurred to me to think about myelf my well being where i finally collasped from exhaustion i couldnt leave my house. I had no where to go and it was becaming enevitable i could loose my job iin a field that i had studied for colledge and the stresses and how proud i was for graduating.
    I changed majors like alot of people do still do for the rational reason of something realistically reachable so i wouldnt let my family down anymore than i previously did because the first years were stupidly spent just partying and school was second to last.
    I can admit not being a good student.
    Well not until it was looking bad and feeling guilt and ashamed especially had if applying myself and helping those around me that were are nothing but users teally wasnt good for me either.
    I told my narc these stories but more in detail where it got schooled into me NARC Brainwashing your slave 101 and i gotta say that class sucked.
    Whatd i know ?
    I never knew people like her really existed.
    Its all Hollywood and too much TV.
    Had i never gone through all the things that happened and those things happened to someone else that i could know?
    It would be hard for me to except and believe all of it. I couldnt believe that theres people out there that really are that dangerous being what ive described and have read the same story almost down to a carbon copy in some of those.
    And its true that talking about even a small fraction to someone whos never gone through or knew some one pesonally that has.
    For its really hard to believe without going through something we all never existed.
    Im exhausred and been up writing.
    Long story short, theres so much more im leaving out i havent scratched the surface.
    I losr everything .no really.
    And its becoming or already is an epedemic
    To Men.
    I got convicted for not hitting her and no one would look at my evidence yet alone listen to anything, the system told me to shut up.
    Went to jail they dropped the DV and assault. But i never recieved any no contact until being surprised when she called me up after kicking me out saying cops never believe Men, courts too how do you think i got all that expensive stuff. She said that to me. Found out she has put a few guys in jail and proudly says 1 is in prison and something about doing that gives her what she calls a boost.
    I cant believe how stupid i am .
    I let a person do this.
    Yes its an incredible feeling to be absolutely crushed.
    We would rather deal with the male narc than the female narc.
    Im working on therapy and there are my moments that i am going to be honest and say yes, suicide comes into mind.
    I am only saying what is probably very close to what a lot and i mean alot of men will never say oopenly cause we hate hearing that Oh dont do thar theres so much more and the talk about what selfish is, We already know.
    So please stop telling us what we are very aware of. Yes it is nice and maybe some of us do need to hear that.
    What the large percentage of us are not just really wanting but we are starting to cry out in this pain we can relate to. Someone who understands and listens. We say the exact same thing, but we are all told to suck it up stop being sensitive cause your a man.
    I still dont get that one.
    Whoever that guy was who originally said that or you hear some loudmouthed tool being a blowhard? By all means.. Kick that walking skidmark in the balls and then yell at him for not sucking it up cuz hes weak.
    Thank you to anyone reading my story that wont dis on it.

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