No conscience, no empathy.

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no soul

Once again, my MN/ASPD sociopath ex has proven what a conscienceless shell of a person he has become.  Maybe he’s always been this way but it seems to become worse the older he gets.    Maybe he just masked his true nature better in the past, and pretended to be a decent person, or maybe he’s really gotten a lot worse.  He used to have some emotions; now he appears to have none at all.   He doesn’t even bother pretending to be a decent person anymore.  He’s a man who is so cut off from all feeling and whose heart has turned so black that he can’t even squeeze out any empathy or drum up any human decency to his own children. To him, they are just objects to use for his convenience and maybe, for a few lulz at their expense.

Unlike some lower spectrum narcissists, this man is so malignant he’s beyond redemption.  He has zero self awareness and never will have it.   He’s way far too gone.   If the Dark Triad had a poster boy, he would be it.   A long time ago, he sold his soul and it’s never coming back.    One of his favorite forms of abuse is financial abuse.  He used to abuse me financially all the time, mostly by freeloading and refusing to work, although he used to steal from me too.

As most of you know, my daughter has been staying with me while she tries to save enough money to move into a place of her own.  She’s been working hard–faithfully going to her job every day where she works long, grueling hours,  and she’s saving money diligently, adding something to her apartment fund every time she gets paid.    Since she doesn’t make a lot, I don’t charge her rent so she is able to save more easily.    Her saving money and not spending it all is an improvement for her.  It’s a good sign that she’s becoming more mature and less impulsive–and she told me the other day how proud she is of herself for being able to resist impulse buys and save money instead.

But she made a mistake.  She didn’t put the money in a bank account.   She keeps it in a box next to where she sleeps.  She trusts me and knows neither I nor my housemate would ever dream of stealing money or anything else from her.

My daughter is a very codependent sort of person, and still thinks of her dad as her sun, moon and stars.  She loves him dearly, although he doesn’t deserve her love.  She knows how sociopathic and narcissistic he is, but loves him because he’s her father and the concept of family actually means something to her.

Today, while I was at work, she let him come over to the house for ten minutes, because they had been somewhere this morning and she wanted to change her clothes.  She was going to make him some coffee before he left.

I don’t allow this man into my house and she knows how I feel about him.   But at least she was honest.  She texted me and said he was only staying for ten minutes and then leaving.   I told her I wasn’t pleased, but that fine, make sure he leaves in ten minutes and watch him.  Don’t take your eyes off him for a second. He’s a thief and a snoop.

Right then she got a phone call from someone she’s dating and went into the bathroom to take the call, not thinking her father would have time to do anything.  When she returned, he told her had to leave.   She said fine, but before he left, she told me she had the urge to  go look in the box where she’d been keeping her apartment savings fund.   Unfortunately the box had been right next to her father the whole time.  She opened the box, and it was empty. All the money was gone.

She burst into tears of hurt and betrayal.  She told him she’d been saving money in that box so she could get a place of her own.  She didn’t want to accuse him of anything, but she knew he’d taken it.   She told him how hard she’d worked for that money, and how hard it was to save.  It wasn’t that much (only about $225) but it had taken about three months to save, being that she can only save about $20 a week.   Her tears didn’t move him.  She told me later she saw a flicker of something that might have been remorse or guilt, but that look quickly disappeared and was taken over by his usual expressionless, cold, flat stare.

“I didn’t take your money,” he said.  “You must have misplaced it,” he continued, gaslighting her.  “Or maybe your mother took it.”  Of course, there he went blaming me, even though I wasn’t even there.    She kept crying, but he showed no empathy, didn’t offer any words of comfort or a hug or anything.  He just started talking about the election instead, and then said he had to leave.    This is a man who doesn’t need financial help.  He gets over $2,000 a month in SSDI and gets food stamps and Medicare.   He has very few expenses and sits at home all day long trolling political websites and painting miniature lead soldiers.    He took her money because he could.  Because he’s a conscienceless POS.

I told her she needed to go No Contact with him. She knows it’s worked for me.  But she’s too softhearted and can’t do it.  “He’s still my dad,” she said.  She loves him even after this. I know she won’t let him in the house again.  She learned her lesson.  She knows how dangerous he is.   Maybe one day she will cut ties from him completely.   I can only pray for this.  She’s going to keep saving her money, starting from scratch, and put it in a bank this time.

50 thoughts on “No conscience, no empathy.”

  1. I’m convinced they get worse. What a pig. He is operating off the narc handbook of escalating depravity. And they can have the money they stole sitting in their hand in front of you and say don’t you remember you gave it to me. Or they can tell you that you imagined the money was still there after you spent it they can tell you you are delusional there never was any money and start calling you a crazy delsuional #$$+_. When they have more money than you in the first place and don’t need it and take it anyway. Narcs. The same stench it’s universal narcdom

    It’s tough with a child and the bond between a child that gets betrayed over and over again yet the child remains loyal is devastating to watch. I’m sorry for your daughter and you

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    • He is a pig. No, not a pig. That’s an insult to pigs.
      It is so hard to see how she gives and gives, and he just takes and takes and abuses her trust. She was his golden child, now that I can’t be his victim anymore, he victimizes her.

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      • I’ve seen this in my own family, my ex put my daughter in harms way with his selfishness and it nearly cost her life. I confronted him about the selfishness and blindness that resulted in such a horror to my daughter and she got mad at me. “you hurt dad’s feelings”. as if his feelings were all that mattered. His feelings needed to be hurt because he’d done something horrendously irresponsible toward her. Blind to his culpability I became the target for calling it out. Then I understood, she was never going to see him for what he was and what he did but maintain a fantasy in her mind because of her father hunger. I heard a story about monkeys that at birth were given a wire model of a mother and bonded with that monkey shaped pierce of wire even though it hurt them with its sharp edges. I think of narc parents as “wire parents”. It looks like a parent, but it doesn’t act like one, nevertheless you hold tightly to it in a delusion that looks like their hope of an actual parent.

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        • Wire parents–good description. BTW< I read about that study with the monkeys and it made me cry. The poor little baby clinging onto its wire mother looked so sad and dejected. Animals too have attachment needs when young and yes, they even develop "disorders" comparable to ours when they are neglected or treated badly by their mothers or bullied by their group.

          That's terrible your daughter almost lost her life because of her dad's selfishness and still defended him. I think it's a kind of Stockholm Syndrome–identifying with the abuser. Many victims do, and it's very unfortunate.

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          • I just looked it up too. disturbing. as an animal lover I am totally against such experiments. especially ones that are INTENTIONALLY to determine effects of NEGLECT(one died due to ’emotional anorexia’? well emotional anorexia is what the experimenter HAS! for even watching that! and setting it up!
            what kind of human …? watches monkies to see how they act when starved for love?
            (isolation chambers? self mutilation,rocking back and forth etc.. and the human does what? writes it in a little log book!?)
            it means the monkey has a NEED that the(that human) human does NOT (in that he can conduct such ‘experiments’) and that’s whats disturbing
            how dare MEN try to study and test “maternal love” and its need????
            sick 😦
            sorry off topic..its interesting and totally valid here! (wire monkey/attachment)
            had to speak for animals.as us too
            feeling same
            I guess love is a need… it cant be tested tough! it just is
            I question those who test it
            bible says jealousy is as cruel as the grave and fire nor water can stop it/kill it…
            it just IS.
            many do seem to want to live with out it
            but why do they harrass or test us who do still want it and need it?
            very strange
            if I see a plant needs water
            I wont test it to see how long it can go without water
            then it dies and I write it in a book? the creator knows…. it needs water… a stranger questions it
            its why we stay quiet and “rock back and forth”
            foreign entity entered
            I wonder if women should lock a bunch of males up together and watch to see when they start fighting….or even being attracted to each other?
            oh wait
            we do
            its called prison
            maybe they aren’t ‘loved’
            and rebel against love..by hurting others.
            (but such isn’t loveable )
            what a mess
            “ye must be born again from above”

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          • She was kidnapped at a place her dad left her, taken in the woods were she was assaulted for hours, left alive by the grace of God and severely traumatized a direct result of him deciding to take the car and go home with a stranger (for sex) while telling her she had to figure out her way home. The way home nearly killed her… She still defended his honor even though his promiscuously lifestyle nearly cost her own life.

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            • God gave men the instinct to protect their daughters from other men. This shows he doesn’t function in normal human manner. What a horrible thing to happen to your daughter, I’m so sorry to hear it.

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            • She was so damaged by this and I groaned in my soul “how long Lord” because for a long time I wanted him wiped off the face of the earth for the harm his narcissism has caused my children. Lucky Otters daughter’s experience with her narc father brought this memory to mind. The damage these men do is astonishing but they know how to pull the “i’m your dad” heartstrings…

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            • Katie, I’m so sorry you had that happen to you. You are so strong because you have suffered some of the worse abuse I’ve heard of. But you have survived, and THRIVED! Anyway…I’m so sorry my post triggered you, Katie. No, and I really mean that! (I was afraid the way I wrote that I might sound sarcastic lol). But I think part of the reason we share our painful stories is because it triggers our own painful memories, and only then can it be purged and moved on from.

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            • Thank you, I do believe that triggering can serve the useful purpose of finding out we aren’t alone and finding there are still some things to deal with. Isolation in the abuse makes it 10 times worse. This is why I find these blogs so healing when you can say “you too, wow, that was horrible” and realize you lived through it like someone else that understands the pain of it. It does help us move on, so triggering isn’t a bad thing in my opinion it is part of healing

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            • me too,through you guys.. I am no longer isolated and currently abused as before and I through reading here I am triggered and all my rage comes up and pain.. that I couldn’t let out in therapy.. and I have a safe space here to feel what I feel…today has been especially bad! a glass broke and shattered.. and my rage went coniption level,as bad as it gets and I cried and let someone know everything I feel about ..him and his mother (other story) but I let it all out…..as now even what some call ‘tiny abuses’ are mountains to me.. tiny abuses.. as little infringements and disrespects that build up over time… so if someone isn’t name calling or outright hitting/abusing me.. but in my space and disrespecting me in their ‘little’ ways.. its a chipping away…til coniptions happen..so I am STILL trying to create the safe space/place around me…and allow myself to rage. I can no longer pretend things are ok when they are not. little or big.i feel where disrespect comes from in their essence.. and I am in disagreement with it.
              I now feel where people INTEND to “shadow you out” of existence.. and make you pacified.. and unable to say anything..in the little ways… its just as bad I am finding
              so yes me too.. whereas before I thought it was bad for my health.. I have now been allowing myself to rage when triggered and let it all come out.. and I tell myself simultaneously “this is good for your health”
              I get advice.to”.calm down.”.” get on your treadmill.””. drink wine “or stuff like that
              and I am now like no.. im good… ill stay like this and do this
              for once
              ill keep doing this with no worry or negative thought attached to it that’s its bad..its where I am now.. each has a diff phase
              I remember full well when this was NOT OK and would have been detrimental! I had to curb it to be at work and ‘get through’
              or it just wasn’t time, I don’t know.. but it was not ok then and it is now
              I am now allowed

              Liked by 1 person

            • I feel the exact same way! Although I hate reading about anyone being abused, it does help to know it is NOT just you! It is very healing indeed.

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        • I was quite irritated that he did, but at least she warned me and he didn’t stay long (but lng enough to steal from her). I think she learned her lesson and will never do that again. She got her consequences for allowing it to happen. Nothing of mine got touched, but that’s because he didn’t have time. I know he loves to snoop and used to snoop on me all the time. He has no concept of boundaires so if he had the chance, I’m sure he’d be rifling through all my personal stuff. Asshole.

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          • You’re doing much better than I would in your shoes. He needs sorting out, punishing in some way. The most ‘grown-up’ way would have been to call the police but it’s hard when children are involved, sometimes even harder when those children are adults and responsible for their own decisions.

            This has me riled up and angry for the position you’re in. Hope nothing like this every happens to you and your family again. xx

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            • There’s Karma, you know. Or hell, whatever you believe. He’ll get his, but it’s God or the Universe who will give him his comeuppance, not I. I have faith justice will always be served in the end, if not in this life, then after this life.

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            • i agree with this! far too often people are let off the hook for criminal behavior as its deemed a “private family matter”
              imagine how women are beat and cops come and say “its a domestic dispute” you two talk it out and calm down have a beer (they actually have said this)
              and he stole
              if a thief broke in and stole you’d be calling the cops
              I know itd be hard.. we arent telling you to do that!
              but its good to KNOW it to feel validated
              give her that option… she wont.. most likely but maybe needs to hear it….
              no proof/wont go anywhere anyway.. but she needs to hear it and HE needs to know most of all you guys are serious and found it to be criminal and NOT a “family matter” that he is therefore ALLOWED to do it as a private matter.
              as far as I can remember looking back I am the ONLY ONE in my family who called the cops on my abusive father and abusive brother
              yet “I” broke trust or some cardinal rule and have been ostracized ever since
              they wanted me to feel “we are allowed to hit you” as a family matter
              and yes sometimes the damned cops AGREE with that! as they proved each time they were called
              so its very important things change
              I gave up
              and rarely if ever called again because nothing happened
              he committed a crime not a family matter and until touch of cinnamon said anything I was still in my lulled state as well.. so used to it

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      • Forgiveness is a beautiful thing and I believe in it wholeheartedly. I’m truly not putting any pressure on you or your daughter, I’m only here to support you. Did you think my last comment was an attack or disapproval? If that’s the case then I sincerely apologise, it was never meant to come across that way. I promise you. My anger wasn’t aimed at you in any way, shape or form, it was only aimed at your husband and what he’d done to you both. xx

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        • Not at all, Cinnamon. No worries, I was not at all offended.
          It’s just that I’ve come to a place in my healing where I recognize Ns as disordered and deeply unhappy human beings, and the demon stigma has gone too far, IMHO by people who cannot let go of hate and adopt a dangerous black and white, us vs. them thinking.
          Of course they are toxic, dangerous,and sometimes evil. But I’ve started to object to the “they are not human but demons” meme for several reasons. That doesn’t mean I wish to associate with them or that I don’t believe we should avoid them like the plague.
          I really hope you’re not offended by my view about this. It’s something that developed as part of my recovery and that I need right now. I know it’s not popular with everyone and I understand that, but I admit I get a little defensive about it at times. I sure hope you understand.
          I know you’re here to support me and know it wasn’t an attack, so please don’t worry. Hugs! 🙂

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          • I’m sorry I’m so slow to reply, I struggle to form my words and express myself coherently, probably down to lack of confidence, plus it feels weird discussing any of this in public.

            I don’t believe anyone is all good or all bad, including Narcs. I’m actually very attracted to their dominant nature but recognise how destructive they can be.

            I’m not offended by your view at all, most of what you write mirrors my own thoughts and beliefs on the subject.

            Having to communicate via the Internet can cause misunderstanding, it’s hard to convey true meaning when facial expressions and vocal inflections are removed.

            Here’s to more interaction and hugs my friend!

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      • Susan, there’s no reply arrow under your comment, so I can’t reply to you directly. I hope you see this and don’t think I’ve ignored you. x

        You did what needed doing, you were much more aware and stronger than I ever was. Actually, I never thought of calling anyone or indeed telling anyone anything that was going off with me, it just never entered my head. It was the norm and all the adults I came into touch with, validated it by saying how wonderful us children were; such well behaved, well mannered and courteous children, but we had to be, we daren’t be anything else.

        Thank you for replying and I hope life is kind to you now. xx

        Liked by 1 person

        • thank you !!!
          well i’d call cops.. and then be scared to death and go hide!!! petrified!! so my fam would answer the door and explain it away.the cops never even so much as asked to see me!! go figure!!!! which means they all 3 stood there and told lies.. at the door… (I think, well she is “mentally ill” and lying or hallucinating etc) im pretty SURE that was it since they tried to convince me of such as well.
          sad, id never do that to anyone.
          its not in me I just cant

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          • Susan – I’m so sorry you had to go through such vile abuse, it’s horrific. Not having a way to escape it, is soul destroying. It’s hard to express what it does to a child, not to mention the long-term effects it has on us as adults.

            The person I am now would probably call the police, but it wasn’t always that way. If life were fair, he’d have the police on his case right now but It’s complicated when you have an adult child begging you not to involve the police, coupled with how difficult it would be to prove, especially it if she doesn’t want to press charges, it would probably stop me too. Add a religious belief that Gods punishment will be punishment enough and the decision is made.

            It’s hard as a bystander not to want retribution for his wrongdoings, my instinct it to stop the abuse continuing but I don’t have to live with the consequences.

            I’ve only started talking publically about my abuse recently. The word ‘abuse’ turns my stomach and makes me angry, as do the words ‘survivor’, ‘victim’ etc. They make me feel pathetic, tainted and needy.

            Anyway, I’d better get to bed. It’s been lovely chatting to you both and I hope we get a chance to do it again soon.

            Night night ladies
            x

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  7. They’re robots of evil – they do what they do and they MUST do it. They do evil like they’ll expire if they don’t, like it’s their lifeline.

    Your poor daughter. Poor you for having to witness all this and being able to only do so much. But prayer IS powerful.

    My husband in my early 20’s used to do that with me. I’d have to hide any cash I had for rent, etc. because if it went into our account the money would be swiped out of there immediately. He always said I miscounted or thought I had it but must not have. Thank goodness your daughter has you to verify what she knows happened. This stuff can almost drive you crazy because its mind-splitting stuff. Very evil.

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    • For the malignant ones like my ex, yes! He is evil. I don’t think non-malignant Ns are evil but they are disordered and you can’t trust them. But malignant narcs have no mercy, no conscience, no hope.
      When I lived with my ex, I also had to hide cash. He’d always find it though. Then gaslight me and say I must have misplaced it or imagined I had it, just the way he’s doing now with our daughter. The poor girl is devastated and I don’t blame her. I wish I could give her the money he took so selfishly, and for no reason except that he could.

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  8. this hurts ,just reading that i’d never ever talk to him again
    its one thing to steal and that’s horrific but to blame you… that just takes the cake on demonic
    it means no remorse and he’d do it again.
    no words for this
    first he wouldn’t let her stay with him right? he lives with her ex of all things? I think such people need to be beaten to a pulp.
    punished not allowed to roam around unsupervised!
    he deserves to be treated as a child that needs help.incensed
    he really should live in a cave and not be able to buy things that even cost money!(and that’s a detailed biblical curse as well, ive read many verses on exactly that happening)
    my narc ex held my cats for ransom literally
    I paid him 250 western union and 250 upon arrival .. would have paid more but thankfully I had it!!that was rare in itself
    but he knew I had it so
    for $500 measily dollars he packed up and left the apartment he was in,not paying rent.(my name on it too although I didn’t live there a year). he needed that money just to get to where he was going to freeload (his aunts house)

    she will need to heal from this it will take time this is a fresh heartbreak and a blow to trust ,even going to work will be hard now.. if she is strong and has righteous anger she can go to work with more gusto!
    these people ruin others lives far too long.. I know.
    I am financially still suffering from domino effects.. of things others did to me that I didn’t deserve at all
    I keep going and somehow I look back and see myself better off than I was then.. it is pretty amazing
    and I don’t get any joy out of it
    the verse always pops in my head
    “the Lord has NO PLEASURE in the death of the wicked”
    or their punishment etc
    I get nothing from ‘them’ seeing me now better off
    nothing
    I am thankful
    but.. what we had originally wished will always be who we are
    we do for ourselves to survive not for payback or revenge “like them”
    its so sad. that theyre so foreign

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      • sorry! reading your feelings on that word.. I just use it as “big jerk” and not really thinking.. its kind of like my exasperation and “God will deal with them as evil” word… or my fighting attack word,….
        since I grew up with church /Christians.. who seem to attack me too, some of them
        maybe its something in me from back then..not sure I can really call a human that word…im so confused.
        (I was told I had some demonic influence because I didn’t want to/was scared to drive a car in my early 20’s) I knew that wasn’t correct… but wow

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        • Wow is right, Susan. Some people are just plain deluded and some religions aeare ore notorous for using fear and terror and the threat of abuse to scare you into their way of thinking. These are brainwashing tactics! I stay far away from any church that holds the threat of hellfire and brimstone over my head or the appalling idea of predestination (in a nutshell, that God has favorites and everyone else is going to hell regardless of what they do (this is the basis of Calvinism), or that presents Christ as a greedy, “the poor deserve to be poor” right winger. Just saying.

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  9. As soon as you said the money was in a box near her bed, I knew where this was going. It’s a repugnant thing for any parent to do to a child and an unbelievably hard lesson for her to be taught. If I had the money, I’d write her a check.

    What a dick.

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  10. Dear Lucky and Friends, happened to my aunt during the late 1940s. She had a us savings bond, and dad-duh cashed it for fun-money. Gram of course could not proove it. Oh, and they were not rich people.

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  11. What a scumbag, to do that to his own daughter.

    Though the mills of God grind slowly; Yet they grind exceeding small;
    Though with patience He stands waiting, With exactness grinds He all.

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  12. A “friend” of my daughter’s once stole ALL of the money that she had worked all summer at a very unpleasant job to earn. We all knew who did it, but due to the circumstances (complicated story) we couldn’t do anything about it. The only good thing to come out of it, if you can call it that, was that she learned not to be so trusting. She was only 15 at the time and a little naïve; since she would never dream of doing such a thing, it didn’t occur to her that other people would do it. She learned the hard way that not everyone has a conscience.

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    • Doesn’t it suck that it’s too dangerous to trust everyone? There are so many evil and conscienceless people crawling around everywhere. I’m sorry about your daughter and what her friend did to her. With friends like that, who needs enemies?

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      • My sentiments exactly. And yes, it does suck — our kids are born so innocent and trusting and sweet, and we as parents are stuck with the unenviable task of shattering their illusions about the world and about people in general. Before the aforementioned incident, I used to try to tell my daughter not to be so trusting, and also not to accumulate or carry around large wads of cash, but she never listened. So it was kind of inevitable that something like that would happen sooner or later. However, I know you’ll be proud of me for this — I did NOT give in to the temptation to say “I told you so.” 🙂

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