This is a very informative article about a type of complex PTSD suffered by victims of narcissistic abuse called Narcissistic Victim Syndrom, or NVS. Neither NVS or C-PTSD are currently recognized by the DSM, but are under consideration for future editions. Although this article is written for therapists, I think it belongs here and can be well understood by people who live with or whose lives have been seriously affected by narcissists. The author stresses that to be able to effectively work with patients with NVS, it’s necessary to be well-knowledged about NPD and narcissism(which abusers are most likely to have).
I’m so glad that NVS is starting to be recognised and I’m glad you brought this term and article to our attention. There is much work to do yet. An interesting counter point to the bloggers reference about the Stockholm Syndrome comes from the psychologist that interviewed the victim in that hostage situation. The victim from which the label was derived was never talked to about her experiences until Dr. Wade made a point of interviewing her. The truth she had to say was shocking… Dr. A Wade an expert concerning abuse survivors has some incredible things to say after his deep research about the labeling of victims. He suggests that victims resist abuse far more than they are given credit for and are often pathologized for reasons he states below.
Therefore labels like co-dependent, imply as mutual relationship of some sorts. For children of Narcs there was nothing mutual or codependent about it. To suggest a crime victim is responsible in some ways for the crimes against them is rather like hearing a pedephile say that the 3 year old seduced him. Thus the 3 year old is partially to blame for the evil that occurred. Narcs. like that. “you made me do it”…And scapegoats are so groomed to accept that something is terribly wrong with them often accept that they are somehow sick or it wound’t have happened to them. Again the therapy world is asking the wrong question “what is wrong with you” rather than the right question “what is right about you and what was crazy about what happened to you”
“From this analysis, Dr. Wade will show how “Stockholm syndrome” and related ideas
(e.g., “traumatic bonding”, “learned helplessness”, “battered women’s syndrome”,
“infantilization”, “repetition compulsion”, “internalized oppression”, “identification with
the aggressor/oppressor”) shift the focus from actual events in context to invented
problems in the minds of victims, particularly women. A product of professional culture,
“Stockholm syndrome” ignores victim responses in context, works to discredit
individuals who criticize official responses, and reproduces professional authority”
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This is interesting, Katie….would you like to write me a guest post about this and Dr. Wade’s findings? (Let me know–I’m serious).
I agree that many types of victims are held accountable for the abuse that was done to them. Rape victims are blamed for “dressing too seductively.” The poor are blamed for “being lazy leeches who refuse to work” and even that THEY are ruining the economy, not the narcopaths who trapped them in poverty–don’t EVEN get me started on this! Battered wives are blamed for “egging on” the abuser, etc. etc. It’s especially bad in our court system and in criminal prosecution where the real abuser often gets a light sentence because they are more glib and better at defending themselves and gaslight onto the real victim. The real victim, meanwhile, often is not compensated fairly or even somtimes accused as being the actual abuser! It happens all the time.
Because of all this, sometimes it’s just easier to collude with your abuser if you feel you can’t escape (No, I’m not encouaging this–just stating what goes through the minds of many victimized people when caught in a situation with an abuser).
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Thank you for the invite. I’ll work on a piece the focus will be about when therapy is empowering versus when it is diminishing. I can put it on my blog if you think it appropriate to share i welcome you to do so!
Colluding with an abuser when your survival is at stake is a smart tactic! However, rather than recognising that as a strength to be commended because you were observant enough to figure out a survival tactic the survivor gets labeled “co-dependent”: or whatever pathology it is that causes a victim to share the blame for the crime/evil/abuse done to them
I know this much, the susceptibility to a narc is innocence, or dependence in some way as a child is dependent on a parent or a spouse on an assumed marriage. Its not codependent personality a narc seeks out as a victim, they seek out trusting, innocent people with good hearts. The one time in my life that therapy actually made me feel loveable was when the short term therapist commented about my recent divorce from a batterer narc… There was nothing wrong with the way you love. You love with your whole heart, trustingly and sacrificially, its a beautiful kind of love”
I wept. because I’d been told from birth “you asked for it” about abuse. I’d been doing cartwheels in therapy trying to figure out what was so deformed about me to “ask for it” Therefore the deep pain my cheating lying abusive narc husband brought on me was my own fault in the eyes of therapy world because you are “codependent” “mentally ill” “or whatever label diminished me and tidily explained why a narc can’t get to a “normal person” like the (the)rapist.
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That’s a really beautiful and empowering thing your therapist told you, Katie. I’d love for you to write a post about it. Putting it on your own blog would be fine, but here’s the problem (and also why I never comment on your blog)–every time I try to click it on, I get a message that says this:
katiesdream2004.wordpress.com is no longer available.
The authors have deleted this site
So I’m not sure how I can read your blog or even follow it.
😮 😮 😮
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Thank you for letting me know I’ll try to figure out what I did! Sigh… Sometimes I feel like a bull in a china shop trying to figure out word press!
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I do too. That’s what comes up when I click your name — I didn’t even know you had a blog.
I tried clicking on your Gravatar image and it takes me to the Gravatar page but at the bottom where blogs are listed, there’s just a 404 error message.
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https://dreamsofabetterworldblog.wordpress.com/ does this link take you to my blog?
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Yes! It looks like I was already following, but for some reason I never get any notifications about new posts in my Reader or my email, so I just bookmarked it, so I don’t forget to check it for new posts. Thank you.
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Yeah, I’m glad it works, thank you!
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I wrote that piece referencing Dr Wade about honoring the stories of survivors resistance and the problems with labeling people. Its more than one story and it is controversial so it if doesn’t fit the parameters of your website you don’t have to use it, or even post this message. I’m open to discussion about my conclusions too but think that mental health can’t improve if we don’t start focusing on strengths of clients and become honest about the lack of expertise in really healing people. With my whole heart I believe the healing comes from the real experts, the survivors. https://dreamsofabetterworldblog.wordpress.com/2016/03/30/when-labels-diminish-a-survivor/
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I agree. I think you would like my therapist. He corrected me when I said he was doing so much for me. He said, “no, you are doing it for you.” All a good therapist does is facilitate, and never, ever should judge.
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Yes that link does go to your blog, Katie. If you click on your gravatar picture it will take you to your gravatar page. Go to the top of the page and click on My Profile. Then somewhere on the right of that page, click on Websites. Then you can add your new blog to your gravatar.
You may already know all that, but after the way I had to hunt to figure it out I thought I would tell you just in case you don’t. 🙂
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Thanks for giving her the instructions, I couldn’t remember how to do it.
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https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/take-all-prisoners/201003/the-narcissistic-family-diagnosis-and-treatment this an interesting one i found of an offshoot from one of these links.
I found it helpful once again, its termed for therapists but it clarifies some phases very well.
Always read part two!!!
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/take-all-prisoners/201003/the-narcissistic-family-diagnosis-and-treatment-part-ii
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try this guy , talk about clever !!! had to watch it 3 times but theres real gold aboiut left brain processing and narcissism there, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIOFe5cFDg477 emotional criminality of the narcissisistic mindset cannot be underestimated in propagating itself via pathological psychopathic influence,
criminology and neuroscience are confirming some profound psychological theories in this mans work.
he takes the idea of second guessing and self doubt instilled in emotionally damaged but reactive criminal victims to a technical level with his bathwater analogy ,scary stuff.
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bathwater ANECDOTE , noit analogy , thats why it was so scary.
he links disclosure of emotional states with psychological negative reinforcement on behalf of the abuser, cementing and reinforcing the idea that emotional discomfort should be 100% internalised or eventually 100% externalised in the anger he sees in the aspd only category when he removes pda anxiety types i think, he is hard to follow at times as he processes so fast it makes ME reslise I should slow down sometimes TOO:)
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Awesome, thank you! I think I just fixed it, love it when I fix something instead of breaking it!
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HAHAHAHA…. thanks for the chuckle! I love it when I fix something instead of breaking it, too! 😀
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Thanks again for extending my education. IDK for sure but could be that NPD was not even an available diagnosis when I went through CBT in the 1980s. Interestingly, I diagnosed my mom with that disorder, based solely on what I learned on your blog, while my sister’s therapist recently gave her the same “third person” diagnosis of our mutual mom!
I would send Sis some or all of the links provided in your post and comments, if I thought she would read them but I know she won’t. My own best hope is that she continues her therapy and undertakes more of the hard work that I think she will be asked to do by her therapist, as I see more “normalcy” in her life and actions just based on what she’s done there so far. Meanwhile, your post, links, etc. shine more light on all the progress that has been made in diagnosing and treating mental disorders.
I think we all deal with the same influences in different ways, i.e. Sis deals w/Mom a lot differently than I do, and those differences may actually be based on the differences in the way that every individual’s brain, even those from the identical gene pool, i.e. siblings, are “wired” chemically and biologically. Fascinating stuff!
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